Updates on the Fight for Quality Public Education in Brevard County, FL
0:13 Two. Miss Campbell. Here. Miss Wright.
0:29 Here. Mr. Thomas. Here.
0:32 Please stand for pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Doctor Rendell, can you address the board with the items on the agenda for today? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
0:58 On today’s agenda, we have some rule development, some policy revisions there for their first public hearing. Then we have some policy revisions for board discussion. Then we have two presentations.
1:11 One is on student services and data, and the second is a overview of the recently adopted state. State budget and how that affects us. Our first impressions of that.
1:24 All right, great. So we bring it up to presentation first. No policy.
1:28 No policy. Perfect public hearing. All right.
1:31 Yep. First we have the board policy review and rule development on policy 3124. Is there anyone present who wishes to address this item? Is there anyone present who wishes to address this item? Policy 5200.
1:37 Is there anyone present who wishes to address this item? Is there anyone present who wishes to address this item? Policy 8330. Is there anyone present who wishes to address this item? Is there anyone present who wishes to address this item? Policy 8406. Is there anyone present who wishes to address this item? Is there anyone present who wishes to address this item? All right, I do have one note.
2:15 During the break, Mr. Wilson and Major Klein came up to me and talked about the 8406. They are going to make some changes before the final public hearing on the 29th of July. So there.
2:29 We’ll have to run an ad after that day, but you’ll get an email with the updated policy, and it’ll be 28 days after July 29 that the policy takes effect. So it’ll be sometime in August. All right, sounds good.
2:44 There. Next we have the discussion on the following policy revisions. I’ll open it up.
2:51 Anyone like to discuss any of those? Maybe Ms. Campbell, if she has any first, since she’s about to board a plane. Ms. Campbell, you first. No, give me a few minutes.
3:02 I got to pull the agenda back up. Okay. There being none.
3:14 Anything quick? While she’s pulling that up, we’re good. I didn’t. I mean, I don’t have any necessarily revisions.
3:31 I’m just going to go on record again saying I. I wish we weren’t doing a complete banning of the cell phones just because I think there’s some good exceptions, but. Noted. Just getting it on the record.
3:49 Okay. That’s right. You’re Looking like you’re looking for something? No, I. I don’t have anything on.
3:58 As far as issues with the policies and the revisions that we’re making, I do want to make sure that the public understands for the record as well that their student is allowed to carry their cell phone with them. They are just not allowed to have their cell phone out. So should there be an emergency, the fear is always out there of what happens if the school has to evacuate or, God forbid, a school shooter, things of that nature.
4:16 That fear comes in, they can’t reach their child. They can have their phone in their back pocket on vibrate. That’s completely okay.
4:22 They just cannot take it out during the day. That’s the expectation from changing this policy. And unfortunately, I really wish that the policy we had before would have worked a little better.
4:30 I think if that would have been enforced the way that this board had intended that policy to work, it wouldn’t have to swing this direction. But because we walk around schools and we see what’s going on there and we see that they’re still using their cell phones all the time, and they’re still videotaping ridiculous things and doing TikTok dances in the hallway, like I see those things. That’s the reason for this, my feelings on changing it.
4:53 So I think overall, it’ll translate into a better across the board. No, it’s not up in the air for people to decide, are we going to allow cell phones, not allow cell phones. We’re going to do it across the board, and I think it’ll be good for everybody.
5:05 That’s all good. Yeah, thanks for those clarifications. I think it’s important.
5:11 Nothing else. All right. That just lends us to the student services data presentation.
5:18 Dr. Ndot, would you like to introduce them? Thank you, Mr. Chair. The first presentation we’re going to have this afternoon, this morning is on data from the student services department. For the last couple years, we’ve made sure that we’ve looked at our data.
5:35 Every time we get a new batch of data, primarily student discipline data, but also some other data. For example, last. Well, for the 2324 school year, we reviewed the student data, especially discipline data, every quarter this year, we decided to do it by semester.
5:53 So back in January, we reviewed first semester data. Now we’re going to review semester two data and a comparison for end of year data. There is also a section on bullying, harassment and Title IX and some other stuff.
6:06 So I’m going to turn it over to the student services department and they’re going to begin the presentation. Good morning board members and Superintendent Rendell. Today we will provide you an overview of semester two data.
6:24 I briefed all board members previously on this data, but I wanted to really give a bird’s eye view of and provide a comprehensive overview of the data this semester. I am so pleased to have Mr. Armstrong, Director of Student Services and Mrs. Cash and Schmidt. They will assist and co present the presentation.
6:48 I just want to remind everyone, like Dr. Rendell said, data, it really tells a story. It also provides opportunities for us to see some of the successes, areas that we performed very well in and then areas for opportunity for growth. And I am a believer of refining and growing as a leader in this district.
7:10 So we always want to look at our data, see where we’re at and continuously refine our practices and processes and areas to make it better. And so that is how we’re looking at the data today. And I think you’ll be pleased with some of the successes that we’ve had throughout the agenda overview.
7:32 We’re going to review student discipline, the structure, as well as provide an overview of discipline data and then go over the bullying and Title IX data. And we’re just so pleased. Again, we want feedback, continuous feedback.
7:48 I do believe in that. That’s how we can get better at our craft. We’ve gotten feedback from our administrators, our bus drivers as well as our BFT teacher at the schools.
7:58 So we can look at it and problem solve how we can get better. Also, we have identified things that we’ve done well this year and then opportunities for next steps for next year. We’ve already planned some of the trainings that we’re.
8:12 We will start in July and August. Moving forward for next year, I want to remind everyone of our structure of how we handle discipline within Brevard Public Schools. First, on the boots, on the grounds.
8:27 As our school principals, they implement all of our policies and procedures and they’re responsible for making sure our code of conduct is implemented and that our we also have student discipline processes and procedures there to help our teachers and to create a climate that is conducive to learning. The role of the Office of Student Services is to make sure there’s professional development, to update policies and procedures and refine those policies and procedures and provide compliance oversight as well as of course, the code of student conduct, making sure that that’s brought forward. We also are in partnership with the Office of School Leadership.
9:06 The Office of School Leadership intervenes to resolve implementation concerns at the schools or inconsistencies. They also oversee the LLCs and alternative sites and then also facilitates the expulsion process. So it’s a collaboration, working together to make sure we have a positive learning environment on our school campuses.
9:29 At this time. I’m going to turn it over to Mr. Armstrong. Good afternoon, Dr. Rendell and school board members.
9:38 So like Ms. Dampier said, we’re going to be reviewing a lot of our data today for our discipline. So the first slide we’re going over today is office discipline referrals or commonly referred to as ODRs. So if you could see we’ve done a three year comparison going from the 2223 school year, 2324 and 2425 school year.
9:59 As you see we have increased actually in our referrals that have been processed this year from to approximately 7,293 or 8% increase. And I’ll explain that a little bit later on the next slide of where some justification of why that is increased. The second part on this slide here I want to highlight is the number of students receiving those ODRs.
10:22 Again we show a three year comparison from 2223 all the way to this past school year of 2425 resulting in approximately 491 or 2% increase of students receiving office discipline referrals than the prior school year. This slide here is a breakdown of the top five incidents that we are seeing in our schools ranked from one to five. Again we go with the same theme of using, excuse me, 2223 school year, 2324 and 2425 school year to show a comparison of where we are.
11:01 Part here we would like to highlight is three out of the top five student behaviors actually decreased from last year to this year. So if you look you see our out of assigned area has actually decreased. Our willful disobedience and our classroom disruption minor.
11:18 A part to actually look at, and I think I hinted to it earlier was the increase in our actual referrals. So if you look at one of the referral types that actually went up was the tardy to class and that tardy to class one here really you see a jump of that 8554 increase in our referrals for that or 77% jump. This is due to in part that many of our schools are using the handheld devices now.
11:48 So we’re accurately tracking the tardies to class in holding students accountable for their tardies. So we expect to see a jump on that based on the crackdown that we’ve done at the schools. And we’re hoping to see here on the corrective actions on the yellow highlighted part on the bottom there.
12:04 Again we do a three year comparison. And again, a highlight we’d like to put out. There is two out of the five top corrective actions have decreased from last year.
12:13 That includes out of school suspensions and conferences with students. Again, our corrective actions are a plethora of choices that our schools have when they are making decisions on a strategy to enact on a discipline referral. So this is just highlighting that part.
12:31 And then the last part on the bottom there is this showing our hate related offenses, which again is a element that we were tracking to see if there was an uptick of our hate related offenses where racial slurs or whatnot are being used by our school students. We did see a jump in that from the first semester from having approximately eight offenses to an increase of 34 more offenses in the second semester, resulting in 42 for the year. So we are keeping an eye on that and making sure we’re tracking that accurately to make sure we are being transparent.
13:09 So before we leave slide six, I want to point out a couple things that Mr. Armstrong mentioned when you look at slide five. So if you go back up one slide and you see the overall increase in the number of referrals, you might think that’s a cause for concern. And we noted it.
13:29 But the explanation is the detentions and the tardies. So we had many more schools monitoring tardies much more consistently this year. One of the things Mr. Armstrong mentioned is several of our schools piloted an app that they could use to track the tardies, use a little device that assistant principals could have and the principal could have in the hallway when the tardy bell rings and they go ahead and enter the student as a tardy and issue a detention and so on.
14:01 So if you look at the number of referrals increased by 7,293 referrals, but the number of tardies that were registered increased by 8,054. So if you were to remove the tardies from the equation, we actually had 761 fewer referrals overall. So the increase definitely can be attributed to, well, now we’re issuing more detentions for tardies because if you notice the number of detentions increased by about 8,000, which is about, about the number of increases for tarties.
14:33 So, you know, we analyze the data, we look for trends. When you first see the data, the number of referrals increasing, you’re like, oh, something’s wrong. And then you go back and Say, oh, it’s all tied to these detentions for tardies.
14:47 And so again, we’re writing more traffic tickets for the tardies and it’s showing up in the data. Just wanted to clarify that. Thank you.
14:55 Sorry. Yes, sir. Thank you.
15:01 Okay, so this is just a further disaggregation of the data that was on the previous slide of our top five student behaviors. This is broken down by race and ethnicity. So the pie chart on the right is showing total referrals generated by race or ethnicity by subgroup.
15:17 And in the actual breakdown there is showing you the total number referrals generated compared to the number of students actually enrolled in our school district for that population base. And we have the same here for our corrective action. So this is just an accompanying document for our previous one to show the racial breakdown of our top five student behaviors and our top five corrective actions.
15:48 Here we have further desegregation of our in school and out of school suspension days and our alternative placement data. So if you see our in school and out of school suspension days, a highlight to look at is our ISS has actually decreased by 9% compared to this time last year, which is approximately 828 days. One thing we do know, and Dr. Rendell had also I believe spoke about was the out of school suspension days themselves increased by 4,522 days.
16:20 That’s not to be confused with the actual amount of OSS given because again we can give an out of school suspension, but it still varies between a one day, a two day, a three day to a ten day. So the number of days have actually increased. However, the actual amount of times we’ve used the out of school suspension corrective action has taken decreased.
16:41 Turning on to the next part of the slide is the alternative placement. And alternative placement is a combination of any time a student is placed in an alternative setting, not just the alc. So a highlight there.
16:53 We want to say the alternative placement has decreased by 8% from this time last year, dropping from 658 to 603 students, which is a 55 student decrease. And another highlight here is four out of the seven subgroups saw a decrease from this from last year. So again we just compare a 2223, 2324 and 2425 here on this graph.
17:25 Here’s a breakdown of further alternative placement data which is our alc, our alternative learning centers versus our home education and learning of alc. So again we keep with the same theme of giving a three year comparison. So a highlight we like to show here is out of those 603 students I mentioned on the previous slide, 73% or 450, 41 have opted for our alternative learning centers over home education or other option which would include them moving out of state, adult ed, private school, etc.
18:03 Here’s a further breakdown of the home education in lieu of our alternative learning center ALC data by race. So again, the three year terminology we’re continuing to use here. And then we have a breakdown on each graphic and each pie chart of students that chose home education in lieu of our alternative learning center by racial maker up.
18:32 This slide is showing our alternative placement by discipline code. So how we generate this is looking at our placement code, which means that generally this is whether they go to ALC or home education. As long as it’s an alternative setting, it is counted in this.
18:47 So if we look here, out of 30 categories that approximately received a placement code last year of an alternative placement, we have seen A significant decrease of 18 saw a decrease from last year. So that’s indicated by the arrows next to each one. One area of highlight we just wanted to put out is our bus transportation major violations.
19:13 You can see there’s been a downward trajectory since since the 2223 school year to now. We had zero alternative placements based on incidents that occurred on our school buses that would result in alternative placement. Here is just a breakdown of those alternative placements by our schools.
19:35 So again a three year comparison. So if a school has not generated any alternative placements in three years, they would not be on this list. However, you see if they have generated one into three years, they are now listed on here.
19:48 And a highlight here to show is again the trajectory of going down. So in 2223 school year we had 909 students be recommended for some type of alternative placement. Last year that was 659.
20:02 This year it was 603. And this data also does include our charter schools. Finally, here is our risk ratio for out of school suspension.
20:18 So there are some highlights here we do want to definitely recognize. So again, the state risk ratio disproportionality threshold is at a 1.0, which is what we strive for when we look at risk ratio.
20:32 So when we look at that our Asian, our English language learners and our white subgroups have made gains towards that state threshold. So what that simply means is before they were being underrepresented in out of school suspensions and now you can see that there is a move towards equality when it comes to them with their suspension rates. The yellow Highlighted stars are ones that are showing they’ve made reductions towards the state threshold, which is always a positive as well.
21:05 So we have our black African American has dropped from a 2.45 to a 2.37, which is very positive.
21:12 We have, our multiracial has dropped. We also see that our free and reduced lunch has also taken a significant drop as well. So overall, we have seen some improvement when it comes to our district risk ratio numbers.
21:29 And I will turn it over to Ms. Caston Smith. So board. Any questions for Mr. Armstrong before he leaves? Questions or comments, we’ll be back.
21:37 But this section. Okay. All right.
21:44 Good morning. So we’re going to go over the bullying and harassment numbers very similar to how we’ve done for the past two years. So in the beginning in January, we went over our numbers as of this first semester and now we’re going to go over our numbers that include semester one and semester two.
22:07 So they’re year year end data. So comparing last year to this year, you can see that we’ve had a decrease of 60 substantiated bullying cases and we’ve had a decrease of unsubstantiated bullying cases, which is wonderful because that is, that is, you know, was our goal when we improved our trainings and we increased trainings. There’s definitely still some work in that area and we’ve got plans for that.
22:40 But we’re happy to see that trending down, down. And then our substantiated harassment cases, they are actually trending up. But if you’ll remember, we shined a light on this this year and I’m going to show you that on the next slide.
22:58 So our substantiated cases, we went up 16 case 16 incidents. And our unsubstantiated cases also went up 14. So overall, we are down 80 cases from the previous year.
23:14 So what that means is that’s 80 less investigations that had to happen in this area, which is always, you know, good because then our administrators are not bogged down with, with these. Not that, you know, we don’t address what we need to address, but it’s just good that our community is understanding what better what they should submit a report for. So before we leave that slide so we can go back, okay, I actually asked them to add up all those numbers and show the trend.
23:45 So the decrease in the substantiated and unsubstantiated bullying is tremendous and that’s a tremendous decrease. The increase in substantiated or unsubstantiated harassment is a cause for concern, but it’s also probably because we’re better defined what these cases are much better. So the student services department and the administrators really need to get some credit for educating everybody about what is bullying and what is substantiated versus unsubstantiated and what is harassment substantiated or unsubstantiated.
24:16 So the fact that, you know, one group went down significantly, the other one went up slightly, but still overall, 80 fewer cases across the district is a great trend, you know, so I didn’t want to leave this slide without calling out the work that obviously student services and the school based personnel have done to make sure they’re using the right definitions and the right categories for these investigations and offenses. Thank you. So I showed you this in the beginning of the year, but I just wanted to highlight this.
24:48 As you can see at the bottom of our reporting form this year we, we added a note and we trained our administrators on this that if they have evaluated a incident for bullying and it did not meet that definition, we don’t just unsubstantiate it and move on. We have them evaluate it for harassment. And if you can see the.
25:14 We also really broke down that definition and helped them go through and analyze whether it met those definitions. So that just explains a little bit more why those numbers went up. And then now we’re going to go over our Title IX data.
25:32 So we’re going to do this the same way, just broken down, but it is cumulative for the entire year. So this is our last year cases and, and our this year cases. And so you can see that we have gone down in our overall formal complaints.
25:52 However, we have triaged 189, you know, possible cases. So that doesn’t mean that they were not addressed some way. They were addressed through the code of conduct, but not through Title ix, which is a very intense process process for our administrators.
26:12 So we really want to make sure that we’re just running the actual things that meet the threshold of Title 9. And so it another thing that we wanted to do. You know, we’ve gotten a lot better at the definition again and really identifying what needs to go through that process.
26:32 However, we wanted to also track compliance with staying in that recommended 60 day school day timeline. So if you remember, when I first started, I reported on how we had 25 open cases from the previous school year. And that was alarming to me.
26:57 And so we really like worked hard on trying to streamline our processes and, and become, you know, just get more in compliance. And so you can see last year we only tr. We ended the school year with six open cases and this year we were ending with four.
27:15 However, we did just get an update from Professional Standards and Labor Relations and it looks like they only have two cases open. So that number is actually even a little bit better. However, so we wanted to try track like what, what has it looked like this year? What, what, how are we doing with this timeline? And out of those cases, only 33% of them resolved in the 60 day timeline.
27:42 Now this timeline is not a hard timeline. It is a recommended best practices timeline. I guess in like 2011 they did give a recommendation for a 60 day timeline.
27:56 And then with the 2020 regulations, when they came out, they said to do it in a reasonable, you know, timely manner. I don’t know exactly the verbiage they said most of these cases though should be able to be completed within that 60 day window or close to that 60 day window. There are some things that are, you know, set in stone where you have certain 10 day windows that you have to hold, you know, hold.
28:28 You can’t move on until those 10 day windows move on. But there is definitely room for improvement here. So out of, out of these cases, 67% of them did not close within the window.
28:42 And so we wanted to further analyze where are they spending most of their time, which they should be spending most of their time in the investigation stage because that is the stage that takes much longer once it gets to a decision. You know, the person making the decision has all the information they need hopefully to be able to make a decision. So that shouldn’t take too long unless they feel that they need additional information.
29:10 But when we analyzed our numbers, you can see where they’re really, we’re taking way too long in these different stages. And so that is going to be our focus this next year is really trying to push, push these along a little bit faster. And we really do provide a lot of support.
29:33 But again, these are intense. Like the Title IX process is a very intense process for a school to try do. So we understand that as well.
29:45 All right, all right, I’m back up to the plate. All right, so survey results. So we conduct surveys again bi, yearly or biannually.
29:58 So we conducted a first semester survey to our school administrators and we have done the same here now at the end of the school year for our second, second semester. So as you’ve seen, discipline, procedures and policies are clearly defined by administrators. We’re still seeing that there’s a very overall strong sentiment by administrators that they’re clearly defined actually increasing by 4% there to 96% agreeing.
30:25 Being able to understand the disciplinary rules and corrective actions in the school is written in a code of student conduct. Again, we do see a slight increase there as well. So it seems like school administrators are seeming like the discipline procedures and rules are easily able to follow there.
30:43 Then here on the third one we see the monthly trainings that we conduct with our school administrators are adequate for them to be updated on policies and procedures. We do see that majority are still saying that they overall agree that they are adequate. However, we do see there’s some room improvement to make sure that we are providing them with the most up to date and easier to follow procedures.
31:06 Last question we asked them was what additional trainings they would need to better support them as a school administrator. And again we see a plethora of different responses there. We see again things a lot of it was other which means that they had ability to fill in what they would like to see.
31:24 See that might not have been one of these selections. But again we see things like MTSS process and procedures, positive behavior supports, additional CPI training and de escalation or some of the higher things that we saw that schools would like better and more additional trainings on so they can be the best they can for our students and our schools. Second, again we conduct our biannually procedure sorry poll to our bus drivers as well.
31:58 So again we asked them three different questions here. So just been referrals being processed more quickly than were in the past. We see that initially last semester we saw there was kind of a mixed result between agree, disagree and strongly agree.
32:13 Here we actually still see an increase in the agree. However we see the disagree has grown just a little bit. So we want to make sure that we are addressing that.
32:23 I will say that we do meet with our supervisors on a monthly basis to ensure that we are hearing them and being able to address concerns. So we definitely want to make sure that we are working cooperatively with our transportation team and I look forward to working with the new director moving forward. Another question is do they know what to do if a disciplinary issue occurs on their bus? Again we do see a slight decrease of 98 to 95% but we still see an overall that they do understand what to do when it comes to a disciplinary issue being on their school bus.
33:00 Finally here every year we do conduct a de escalation and positive behavior support training with them at the beginning of the year year. This year I believe it’s on August 29th we asked them what additional trainings they would also like to see. And again, we see a little bit of a plethora of different answers here, mainly being positive behaviors and support training and de escalation for our students there, along with some different options and ideas of what they would like to see.
33:32 Finally, we work collaboratively with our teachers union, our bft. So again we meet with them monthly to address all types of concerns involving student services, not just discipline. So we had asked Mr. Colucci and his team to survey their teachers to see how they felt about a few things.
33:54 So we have the following responses here. Discipline policies and procedures are clearly defined for teachers. We look to see there is a decrease there that they are feeling that their needs to to be more clearly defined for our teachers.
34:08 So we will make sure that we’re addressing that moving forward there I am able to understand the disparity rules and corrective actions in my school as written in a code of conduct. Again here we’re seeing a slight decrease here. So again we will make sure that we’re working with our colleagues in the BFT to make sure that we’re addressing that and providing our teachers with the most adequate information.
34:32 Another thing they surveyed them on was school administrators following up with them after a referral has been issued. We do see a slight increase when it comes to some of the time. But again we do see that there is a slight decrease on them feeling that they’re not following up to par all the time.
34:50 So again we will make sure we’re addressing that with them. And finally, I can easily get a hold of administrator during a crisis session. We do see again, just a slight decrease on that.
34:50 So again we will be working with our team and colleagues there to address these concerns for our teachers. Oh, there’s more. Sorry, my administration supports me with discipline issues.
35:14 Again, you can kind of see there’s a little bit of a trend here where there’s a little bit of a dip when it comes to some of these responses. I do note that we did have less teachers participate in this from 438 to 344. So the numbers used are slightly lower than they were before.
35:33 And then the final one is again additional trainings that they would like to see. And again we see a plethora of options here, mainly with being things like more trainings on the district, policies and procedures, de escalation, classroom management, etc. Okay, so next steps.
35:55 So Moving into this 2526 school year, we just want to kind of highlight some of the things we’ll be doing in order to support our schools better. So continuing with the canvas course for all school administrators that highlights not only the bullying, harassment investigations, but Title 9 and Code of conduct and discipline. We will continue continue with new face to face trainings for our administrators including practical application of investigations with discipline, bullying, harassment, Title IX threats.
36:26 We’re doing some in depth scenario based training that will help them with real life scenarios and help them how they can work through those better. We are going to continue working with our partners to make sure that we’re training our new assistant principals through AP, AP1 and AP2 sessions. So my team, along with Ms. Kasten Smit will be working with Lisa Hyam and her group as far as making sure our new administrators are adequate and fully prepared.
36:54 Again, I mentioned it earlier, but on the 29th of August, we’re having our positive behavior and supports trainings for our bus drivers that we had last year. It’ll be right here in our boardroom. And finally we do conduct monthly trainings where with our on discipline and a plethora of options when it comes to student services.
37:12 So we will continue making sure that we’re training them and providing them with the updates as needed. We’ll also be rolling out new case management software for the bullying and harassment and Title 9 investigations. And so the goal with that is to remove barriers to reporting and you know, just take note that that could, we could see an increase in reports whenever we remove barriers, you know, and make it where they can access that easier, increase transparency and the ability to track and report the cases and then, you know, consistency across the district and the we’ll be able to provide support easier and earlier in the process because we will be able to see it during the investigation versus not really be made aware of it or.
38:07 Well, we’re made aware of it but we can’t see how the investigation is going until it’s uploaded. So. And I’ll end this.
38:17 A couple more new things we’re doing on systems of support. Currently right now our administrative hearing process is all paid paper based. So we have been working in collaboration with our colleagues in ET to streamline this administrative hearing process by embedding it into focus.
38:35 So it should be a lot more streamlined and easy to follow for our school administrators when they’re having to have the unsavory task of having to hold an administrative hearing. This should be a lot more streamlined as far as what documents to use, how to process it. So this is something exciting that we’re working on and finally, Ms. Dampier had mentioned this at Ascend, but there are new Power BI dashboards that are going to be unveiled to assist schools in analyzing their data easier.
39:05 So instead of having to go through cumbersome reports, a lot of this stuff will now be at their fingertips for them to disaggregate and dig into the reason why. We’re seeing an uptick perhaps in the hall hallways with tardies or for classroom, you know, misbehavior. This Power BI dashboard is going to assist them in really being able to dig deeper into that data and problem solve with their team members.
39:33 Again, are there any questions? That concludes our presentation. Thank you for giving us the data. The data is what the data is, and so we always need to.
39:43 To make sure we’re staying on top of it. Here’s what I’m gonna say about this, and this is the part that I think I’m gonna specifically, I guess probably Mr. Reamer is gonna go to your department. The amount of administrators that did not respond to these surveys is absolutely alarming.
39:57 And there should be some accountability that’s had there. The same for the teachers. That is true.
40:01 We’re getting such a small fraction of the picture that it’s really hard to make an informed decision based on half of the people’s opinions on these things. Shout out to Mr. Wilson. Because it looks like every bus driver filled out their part of the survey.
40:16 So shout out there. But that part of it, I think is probably really. That’s alarming to me.
40:21 We need to make sure that we’re getting the data back. So whatever we got to do, if there’s something that we need to let you know, let Mr. Ramer know, hey, we only have half the principals that are responding to this, so he can kind of light a fire there. And the same with the teacher.
40:23 So whatever we can do to get. Get more participation is crucial on how we’re going to improve things. The other part of, you know that when we’re looking at the discipline, the discipline is what the discipline is.
40:45 And honestly, when I look at the trends of what we see from like 2020 or 22 to 23 to, you know, moving forward, I expected this thing to shoot up. I mean, big time. For our discipline referrals, we’re going to have a lot more, and then it’s starting to level.
40:58 And that’s really what I see in this data, is that we’re not seeing as many referrals. We’re seeing some different things. But that’s because we’re honing in on certain offenses that are happening at schools, which is good accountability.
41:07 Right. We need tardies to be. To be logged in correctly.
41:10 We had schools that weren’t even officially logging in tardy. So obviously there’s no referral from that. So whatever we can do to continually improve, I think clear expectations lead to results.
41:21 And so as long as we convey what that is, then we’ll keep moving in the right direction. And whatever we can do to get people to participate, participate in these surveys. The same thing happens when we survey our families.
41:30 And I’m like, man, we’re not getting any participation and we’re making decisions based on some of the surveys. And so, guys, participate if you want. Obviously, your voice to be heard.
41:40 That’s all I have. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, first of all, thanks to you and your team, Ms. Dampier.
41:47 You guys have done a really, really good job. And I appreciate you taking the time to meet with us individually and let us ask all of our questions. So very much appreciate all you guys.
41:57 To me, it seems like everything is moving in the right direction. I’m not particularly concerned with the number of referrals because that just shows that things are being enforced and looks like things are moving in the right direction as far as actual discipline. And if those numbers are coming down, that means that hopefully in the future the number of referrals will come down.
42:16 But the more important numbers are the most important things are coming. The discipline issues are coming down. The one thing that I was caught my attention that I am a little concerned about or a lot concerned about, is kind of plays off what you had said, Mr. Wright, as far as response by the administrators.
42:35 But the teacher’s response for the discipline policies and procedures are clearly defined for teachers. To me, that’s a principal issue. And we’re doing all these policy changes.
42:48 We strengthen the discipline code, we’re about to make some other larger changes, and it’s all going to depend on the principals. So to me, I mean, Dr. Rendell has the tough job of making sure that the superintendent. I mean, that the principals are being consistent across the board and that the policies that we make here are enforced.
43:08 So. And then relate to the teachers. So I just think that’s a big thing.
43:13 Sounds like you guys are trying to address that problem, and I’m sure Dr. Rendell will address that as well. And that’s all I have. Ben? I’m good.
43:24 Wait, wait. You said you have no comment. Second time again, thanks.
43:30 Thanks for meeting with us one on one. We got our answers and keep up the good work indicators are saying that what we’ve asked you to do and emphasize is happening. So thank you again, Dr. O’.
43:44 Dell. Thank you guys are done. We’ll bring up the second presentation.
43:46 Thank you guys for all your hard work. You know, the numbers, the numbers are definitely moving in the right direction. We do have some work to improve on, so we’ll do that for sure.
43:57 Thank you, guys. So the second presentation is an overview of the state budget and what that looks like for us, but very preliminary. It was just last week that the state finally approved the budget for this coming year.
44:14 And so Mrs. Lusinski and her team have been putting in all nighters looking at what the budget forecast, what the budget outlook is for us for this coming year. These are just preliminary numbers. I want to give you guys at least a taste of what we see so far.
44:30 And then of course, we’ll bring you tentative proposed budget July 15th on a work session and then hopefully for approval July 29th. Ms. Luzinski, it’s all you. Okay.
44:45 Good afternoon. I’ve really, my stomach is growling too, Mr. Thomas, so I hope not to go too long. So, you know, like Dr. Rendell said, I was expecting the FEFP May 2nd, and we got it on June 13th, which we’re still going through it, but I can tell you where we are.
45:11 I think we’re at a better spot than what the Senate or the House would have done before they conferenced. But we’re off from where we’re used to, if that makes sense. So I just want to go through this again.
45:27 I do it every time. But you know, what is a budget? It’s a plan and it has estimated revenues and estimated expenses. And so what I’m going to talk about today is the estimated revenue from the fefp.
45:41 I know we have revenues from other areas, but what I really want to focus on is what the state approved for the FEP and what we should expect from them. And again, budget priorities. We, you know, you know, we always want to make sure that’s why we’re here.
46:03 Excellent education for everyone. And then how do we do that? We do that with an incredible workforce. So we have to take care of our employees.
46:11 They’re our biggest, most important asset that we have. We also have to maintain financial strength. We have to consider the taxpayers, because right now in the economy today, everybody’s kind of crunched and they want to make sure that every dollar is going to what they believe it should go towards, which is educating our students.
46:37 Some budget considerations, student attention, achievement. That should always come first. Legislative changes.
46:44 That’s some of those I’ll go over today. There’s still others. I’m still trying to dive in to see how that could or will impact us today or in the future.
46:55 Uncertainty in enrollment. When we go through some slides, you’re going to see some enrollment projections that on the surface are, you know, alarming. But you have to understand that the legislature, when they included the scholarships, they put everything is commingled and then like shook up and everything all into this one report.
47:25 And then we have to extract all the different amounts and say, okay, this is a scholarship portion, this is the district portion, this is charters. So when you see that, you know, we have 80,000 FTE, that’s really not true, but Brevard county does. If you include what the fes, what the private schools are funding with fes, it’s very strange, but I’ll talk about it when we get there.
47:54 Health care costs. I was at a conference with, with all the CFOs two weeks ago and we are so much better off than a lot of the other districts. Some of the districts are, they’re talking about going below their fund balance requirement or getting right down to 3% because of health care costs are just, they’re through the roof for them.
48:24 So. So our cost increase this year is very minimal compared to what we’ve done in the past year. So that’s a good news story.
48:34 And also our FRS has not increased that much in previous years. It was 5,6 million and this year it’s about 1.2.
48:44 So some of those unfunded mandates are less than what we’re used to, which is good. And then we have the impact of inflation and then we need to make sure that we’re always responsible. And again, this slide, and it means more every time I show this one, is this is a team effort and the focus has to be on academic student achievement.
49:13 There’s no winners, there’s no losers, there’s only challenges and opportunities. You know, we can’t say, well, that’s my money or no, this goes. We just have to make sure that with what we have, which isn’t going to cover everything, we want to do that we’re allocating it to what you feel is best for each student achievement.
49:34 So that’s my view on what we need to do as budgets get smaller. The conference report, the state level, you can see the FTE projected growth, 53,783. But if you again, when you extract the numbers, which you actually have to do the districts and the charter schools are down 18,000 and the scholarships are up 72.
50:08 Now these are projections. Base student allocation increased $41.62 this year.
50:24 I wanted to compare it for you. So this fiscal year our BSA went up $191.25.
50:36 So this coming year it’s $41.62. So that’s the increase that we get for discretionary dollars to pay things like salary raises, those kind of things.
50:48 So not a big increase. The per pupil funding increased $143. And that’s mainly because of the TSIA.
51:01 There was a small increase for TSIA. It’s a little more than a half a percent. And it’s also in the language they talk about that the teachers must have at least two years full time teaching experience acceleration option supplement.
51:18 Now this is the good news. All the ap, all the advanced courses that you were hearing was going to get, the weights were to going, going to get cut in half. They didn’t do that.
51:30 So they gave, they gave, they allocated all the funding for the add on FTE and added a little bit more, which is good. And they took it out of the BSA and then they made it into a categorical. So when you heard people very upset or worried about the apartment and those kind of things, the legislature ended up providing all those dollars.
52:05 So this is the chart that I was referring to. And this shows history of growth. And you can see the first column is district, which means rbps.
52:17 The next one is charters. And the next column is scholarships. And then you add totals together and you get that.
52:26 So. You can see that I had them written down, but I’ll see where they are. So the scholarships grew, the district number went down about 1,200 and charters grew about 222 FTE.
52:57 So altogether our increase is 1,000 a little bit, I think about 1,500. You’ll see a slide soon on that. But the thing to remember about this is the scholarships are so different is because they’re for private schools.
53:16 So the majority of the scholarship dollars go to families that were already in private schools. So the vast majority never planned on, never stepped in a public school. So this is additional money that the state is allocating to pay for the scholarships, but not necessarily taking.
53:51 Enrollment from districts and charters, although there’s probably about 10, 15% you could probably say of the numbers of scholarships that on average are going over. And here’s the Brevard’s tax assessment history. You know, we had those two years anomalies in 22, 23, 23, 24.
54:22 We’re not going to see those double digits again in, in a while or I don’t know when that could happen again. But we’re not going to see that. We’re going to be around the 4 or 5% in the next couple years.
54:41 So this is the conference report for the state level and what I always do is the first thing I look at is when you see the unfunded fte, I go over and look at the difference on the top and that number is 53,783. So that is the number that the state is projecting that will grow. If we grow beyond that 53,000 then there will be a proration.
55:21 So that’s something that I always take a look at in the very beginning because we don’t want to go over that number because if we do then the state will turn around and cut all the dollars across the district to come back to their original number of this number though the district and the charter schools are declining 18,870 and the scholarships have increased 72,653. So again the scholarships number is higher, they’re growing, district numbers are going down. So all that projected growth is scholarships.
56:10 The next thing I do is look at the bsa, we talked about that already, want to see how much growth we got. It looks like what 78, 0.78% less than 1% growth.
56:22 And then you look down and then you can see we have the academic acceleration that’s the new categorical. So they again all our add on dollars for AP and all those different things got moved from the base into this categorical. But you know that’s a good thing.
56:51 And then I’ll go down and if you look where it talks about total state categoricals where it says state funded, discretionary, kind of towards the bottom that 242 million, that’s all scholarship dollars that doesn’t go to the school district. So that can kind of skew when you think you’re getting a lot of money or additional increases. Overall we are getting some increases but mostly going towards the scholarships.
57:32 And then so this slide, I did the same thing but I did just Brevard and you can see the difference in. And then so again I look at the, I probably have it written here. So I look at the growth here and you know the growth says 1050 but in reality the scholarships grew 2000bps went down1261 and charters grew 222.
58:12 So although it says it’s a positive and it’s growth and we’re getting more money for that, it really again, when everything’s commingled and we pull it out, we find that we actually have some decreases. And then if you go all the way down to the total funding on the difference column, if you see that $23 million number, remember that number because we’re going to talk about it again in a minute. And then this slide kind of dissects or extracts all the dollars into the right buckets.
58:54 And you can see here the scholarships, how everything is broken out. So when you look at the fefp, for example, you’re going to think or you’re going to see 81,576 as how many FTE Brevard has. But really, BPS Schools is projected to have 59, 574 and Charters 9947.
59:25 So again, it’s a different picture when you break it out. And then, you know, everything still kind of applies. You can see last year we did receive a proration, and in that case, the proration was because the scholarships grew.
59:50 That was something that we didn’t agree with. And I think that’s one of the reasons that fourth calc hasn’t come out yet. Normally the fourth calc comes out in April and they still haven’t put it out there because there’s just so much, I guess the scholarships fes step up for students, I mean, they just grew so fast.
1:00:19 They’re not really weren’t able to keep up with it. So there’s so many things that they’re trying to fix. But, you know, now we’re at, you know, almost the end of the fiscal year and we need, we kind of need to know what that ending number is.
1:00:34 But so there’s a lot of work going on here to try to correct some of these things. Cindy, can I ask, do you think you’re going to have that number before the end of the fiscal year, which is, you know, six days away or whatever it is? Well, I’m on a lot of emails back and forth to fdoe and the answer is this is harder than we thought it was going to be, but we’ll try to get you something because one of the things too is we need to know where we end. So, you know, because we have to wire money to the charters to give them their share, and we don’t know what that is yet.
1:01:22 So we’re hopeful that’ll come soon. And we’re also Hopeful that there will be some corrections in there for some of the dollars that I believe were. We didn’t receive an fes receive those dollars when they’re actually the students were going to bps.
1:01:43 Can you update the board when you get those final figures? Sure, because it’s probably going to happen in between now and when we have our next board meeting, obviously. So when you have that, if you don’t mind, please just letting us know. Okay, thank you.
1:01:54 And then so if you take a. Okay, so this is the breakout. And then you can see on the very bottom the funding per FTE unfunded.
1:02:10 And I could go into any of these categoricals if you like, but. And then the final one is the VPS school. So this is kind of what we’re seeing.
1:02:23 And again, this is a plan, this is a budget. It’s based on the enrollment that we have projected. So, you know, it will change, but you can go all the way down to the bottom.
1:02:42 Well, I guess when you see the FTE and the weighted fte, you see the negative percentages, which we haven’t seen yet. The weighted FTE negative is being because of reduced enrollment and also because the state reduced the program factors for some of our funding. For example, the 101 basic K3 cost factor went from 1.
1:04:06 118 to 1.108 and that’s actually about $844,000. So altogether about 2.
1:04:35 2 million because of the reduction in the cost factors. And then if you go all the way down on the difference, total funding, we’re a positive 111,966. Now if the academic acceleration, if that wasn’t put into a categorical, then we would have been up about 4 million.
1:04:50 So this slide is something that I normally do to show you what we have. What is, you know, did we get an increase from last year to this year from third calc now what can we expect? And altogether we have a reduction of our. Yeah, million point two is our total decrease.
1:05:23 Again, this doesn’t include other revenues that we receive. And then you start off with that 23 million because everything’s all commingled together. All these categoricals have to be spent on that purpose.
1:06:07 So that’s why I’m taking that out, because I’m trying to show if we have any discretionary dollars. And then just keep in mind, for example, transportation, normally the transportation categorical covers about 50% of what we need or what we spend. And the safe school allocation is about 2 million short of what we’re spending currently.
1:06:20 So considerations for 26 and beyond enrollment, obviously legislative changes, you know what other things are going to change and FRS rates, salary considerations, health care. Like I said before, when they went around the room and people talked about their health care, I was like, this is a good year not to have a huge bill. Cost increases due to inflation, tariffs, energy price increases, supply chain disruptions.
1:06:42 There’s just so much out there that I can’t really project and tell you what’s going to happen. There’s two wars in two different regions. It’s going to be interesting.
1:07:06 And then finally there’s going to be changes to the federal grant programs by the new administration. So we’ll have to see how that impacts us as well. So are there any questions? Lord.
1:07:11 Good. Okay, Dell, just one of the things that I think I saw on the slide slides is basically the Overall increases between 1.91% or 2.
1:07:17 14%. So very small, Very small. 2.
1:07:48 14%. Yeah, 1.9 overall.
1:08:25 All the way on the bottom you can see the.02%. Yep.
1:08:39 So not much additional. Additional funding did we. And I apologize.
1:09:04 But have you gotten a tight indication of what our mill and everything else is going to be this year from the property tax? We did get the. I don’t have it on here. I mean we do have the projection for the tax assessment and I can get that for you.
1:09:22 And that will the increase where the increase really helps is with millage, with the operating millage that with the voted operating millage. So any increase is great. And also with the capital with the lci, any increase in is also very good when it comes to the fefp, the way it works, especially for us, the discretionary funds that we get, the 748, we get that.
1:09:29 But then we get a categorical called a compression because we are below the average district. District. And they give us this categorical to get us up to the average.
1:09:41 And so if our or when our values go up and we actually receive more dollars, they reduce that categorical because now we’re closer to the average. So basically your 25 to 26 here increase of 3 point basically to 3.3 million from our mill is pretty accurate.
1:09:59 Like I know that. I think it’s Ms. Altman that works over there at the tax collector’s office that we usually discuss with if they give an indication of. Is that a pretty good number that you’re hearing? Is that estimate that was just up on the board? Is that one that they’ve indicated to us or Are we just estimating that? Oh no, no.
1:10:12 This was provided to us. This was, you know, by law we have to get this number by May 30th. Right.
1:10:36 And then we’ll get another number July by July 17th and that will be the, the final number. Yeah. And if they, that final number you’re not sure of yet because we don’t.
1:10:58 Because usually they indicate that they’ve got this ahead of giving it official print. They haven’t given that to you yet? No, we normally. And then the, the commissioner from FDOE sets the RLE rate.
1:11:12 Yeah. I was just also talking about our mil and some of the others that won’t be affected by the Department of Education. I don’t have a number, but soon as that comes in, if it comes in prior, I’ll let you know.
1:11:19 But again, the thing that, that helps the most or helps is the non voted. The voted millage because then that, you know, people get more dollars for their supplements and those kind of things and the LCI where that helps us with our facilities. And then the investment income.
1:11:29 Do we have an estimate into that? I don’t have a estimate for the investment income at this point. What I really wanted to do was kind of get out there and show you what the FEFP says. And again with.
1:11:41 The interest rates are still good. This, I mean we’re doing pretty good with interest rates, but with investments and everything going on right now, it’s hard to predict. Well, don’t we get every year at the end of the year we get our investment income.
1:11:58 Correct, Correct. And we haven’t received that income yet. We get it every month.
1:12:06 So if you want to know where we end up, I can get that for you. I think that’s part of. For this year, but projections for next year is what I’m saying will be difficult.
1:12:26 Yeah, no, I was more concerned about our current investment income that we have, making it a part of what we look at when we talk about revenue sources and stuff like that. Right. And your point is well taken.
1:12:35 I’ve been looking at a lot of what you’ve brought up because we do get. And you know, like I said, we have other revenue sources and I’ll lay that all out for you. But again, we also have a lot of funded unfunded mandates.
1:12:38 We have categoricals that aren’t full fully funded ESC guarantees. Not fully funded. Transportation’s not.
1:12:58 Those come out of the, those come out of the financials. I’m sorry, Those come out of our financials, our finance, our, our investments well, when we pool our dollars together, what dollars are available go to fill in the voids. Okay.
1:13:02 So our investment incomes can be part of our revenue sources that we have. Correct. We’ll see those when you’re able to pull those together for the full year.
1:13:04 Right. You’ll see those next month. Okay.
1:13:10 And then can you send all the school board members the portfolios for the companies that we invest in and stuff like that? Can you do that? Deep dive? I think we did that in 17 or 18, and I think it would behoove our school board members to kind of see who we’re investing in, where the money goes and stuff like that in the companies that we use. Sure. Easy enough, right? Okay.
1:13:14 All right. Got. I’ll follow up next month.
1:13:21 I’m good. Good. All right.
1:13:22 Thank you so much. All right. Lots of information, as always.
1:13:34 Any other business Board. Yes, sorry. We also.
1:13:42 I thought we had something. Do we have an HR brag sheet that is on the agenda? No, that was removed. Okay.
1:14:02 All right. Yes. Board.
1:14:25 I have one more thing I would like to discuss with you. So on February 11, our board voted and approved the financial literacy program that we had gone through. Our committee, obviously the curriculum had been vetted out.
1:14:36 It was challenged by the public. So then we hired a hearing officer, and a hearing took place which was very informative. I attended that hearing because I wanted to see what goes on.
1:14:56 When we’re challenging a curriculum, what are we looking for? Very, very informative. So that hearing took place on April 9, and the hearing officer gave his official recommendation to the board. The board then again voted on April 22 to uphold the recommendation of the hearing officer, which was to move forward with the financial literacy program.
1:15:19 And I want to get a clear consensus from this board, because May 20th, we got an email from Ms. Harris kind of going over another option for financial literacy. But we had already voted now multiple times on the previous financial literacy program. So I took some time to kind of go through the alternative financial literacy that did not go through the curriculum vetting process.
1:15:39 Okay. So that was part of my number one red flag was, wait a minute. Why was it not part of the curriculum vetting process for financial literacy? And it’s being offered to our district at a free price.
1:16:02 Free doesn’t necessarily equate to better. And so when I go through the two options, I just still strongly, strongly, strongly stand behind the one that this board has already voted on and approved and has already been challenged by a hearing officer multiple times. And so I really would like to get consensus from the board and us to have this discussion on moving forward with a financial literacy program.
1:16:23 Which one are we going to go with? The free one. I don’t know if anybody took the time to go through and look at the modules and the lessons and see what was there to offer versus the one that we approved, which is far more content rich than the free one. So I just want to hear from you guys what your take is on this and what we should be doing.
1:16:46 My ask is that we uphold what this board has voted on two times now and has spent money on to go through the vetting process. And we uphold the, the financial literacy program that we have already been criticized on, had news articles written on, and all kinds of fun stuff. So I’m going, why in the world are we not going with what the board has already voted on two times? All right, would.
1:16:55 Would like to join in first? Well, I would like to make a comment and then defer to Dr. Rendell because I’d like to hear his comment. But in my conversations, it’s my. With Dr. Rendell, it’s my understanding that the, the free, the free curriculum is viewed as being equal or better than the Ramsey.
1:17:20 As my understanding that it is, it’s comparable. If not, and certainly if it’s comparable and it’s free, then that I would certainly lean towards saving the money if our staff see that it’s comparable. And I like to hear Dr. Rendell’s refresh my memory on his.
1:17:32 Yes, absolutely. So shortly after the board acted in February to approve the Dave Ramsey curriculum, and then it was challenged. When it was challenged, we were made aware that we have access to a free online curriculum already with everfi, with the company everfi that we already use for some online curriculum, and they have the financial literacy curriculum available to us to use for.
1:17:42 For free. And so we talked with each of the board members about the fact that we have this other curriculum that’s free. It saves us about $736,000.
1:17:58 So we talked to the committee that reviewed the various curriculum offerings and asked them to review the EverFi curriculum and make a recommendation as to whether they would go. They would rather go with everfi or the Dave Ramsey curriculum. It’s my understanding that staff did review the EverFi curriculum and said if that had been the original in the original review package, they would have selected that.
1:18:05 They said this is, you know, a lot of our teachers already use this. Our economics teachers already use this curriculum, you know, when they teach units on financial literacy. So our teachers are already using it.
1:18:07 We Already have access to it. Save us about $736,000. Wouldn’t necessarily require waivers or anything like that.
1:18:18 So that’s why we made a decision to move forward with that. Can I ask a question? For clarifying purposes, when you said it was reviewed by committee, it didn’t go through the same process as the curriculum, the financial literacy curriculum, because there was multiple different companies. Correct, Correct.
1:18:23 It was not through that instructional review materials committee. Right. Which has community members and people like that on it.
1:18:37 Right. It was just with our curriculum department. With the department.
1:18:55 Okay. All right. And again, if you didn’t look at both of these, I’m just going to say you didn’t do yourself any favors because they are drastically, drastically different.
1:19:06 And I’m a firm believer. And you get what you pay for free. Doesn’t always equal better.
1:19:13 And I honestly, truly believe that this will impact thousands of students and change their financial trajectory in such a way that you. You can’t even put a dollar amount on, honestly. So that’s really where I’m at with it, Mr. Gibbs, for the legality purposes of this, because we have voted on it two times.
1:19:32 Where does this fall? The board’s approved the Ramsey curriculum for purchase and implementation. I would have to look into the ever5 stuff. I haven’t been that involved in it, other than just seeing emails come through.
1:19:40 So I. I can’t tell you whether it’s there. If it’s already accessible and that’s what people have been using, then it sounds like it’s been approved by someone at some point. Okay.
1:20:04 All right. So again, just trying to have the conversation. Unfortunately, one of the nuances of being on a board is we can’t discuss these things unless we’re doing it in a public setting.
1:20:16 So sorry to blindside with something like this nature, but I truly believe that this is what’s best for students. And after I had this conversation with Dr. Rendell, I kind of. It ate at me last night and I’m like, are we doing what’s best for students? Is this what’s best for students? I truly, with all my heart, believe that this Ramsey Solutions is the best for students.
1:20:34 But I want to know what the board’s will is on this one. Is Ms. Campbell still on? No, no, she’s on a plane flying somewhere. She can’t call her.
1:20:45 Not from the plane? I don’t think so. So let me ask a couple of coordinating factors. So right now, we’ve had this as part of this free version, working through our systems, our people, Rendell is saying it, but for your purposes, are we in any kind of trouble for passing one, then bringing another underneath, or do you need to review that kind of.
1:20:51 I would want to look at it all to see exactly what’s taking place and how it’s taken place. But if it’s been used before, then it has to be a part of something that has been approved. So that’s my guess.
1:21:02 Wouldn’t it just take a motion and a vote to change whatever we wanted to change anyways? If you want to clarify for approval of curriculum, there is a specific process outlined right now for this next year. You’re kind of behind the eight ball. Correct.
1:21:11 So my. So my question is, we approved, like Ms. Wright said, a specific financial. And then we have this other one that we had before.
1:21:20 I’m just trying to figure out the legality of. Is it possible that we can use the free one or. Yeah, Verify.
1:21:27 Yeah. Or do we have to use the one that we voted on? She was asking some clarification. Do you need time on that or something? Like I said, if both have been approved, then it would just be shifting to.
1:21:31 From one approved to another. You have approved and have voted on buying the Dave Ramsey. I have no idea where that is in the process.
1:21:40 If it hasn’t been done yet versus if it was ordered and then canceled. I have no idea. So we have not ordered the Dave Ramsey curriculum.
1:22:17 So that was my second part at the time. The board did authorize the budget for it, but then it was challenged. Right.
1:22:23 So we didn’t order any books yet, but the board has voted on that. April 22nd. That’s.
1:22:28 That’s been two months. So not real happy about the two months of not doing anything. Let me just ask an operational question.
1:22:40 So, Dr. Rendell, if for some reason we decided 4 to 0 or whatever to move with the Dave Ramsey, would you have enough time to order it, implement it, and get it before the school? I have no idea how quickly that material could be turned around, but I imagine. And it’s available, you know, it’s just a matter of shipping and time, you know. Now, staff did design the lessons for the EverFi curriculum, so I don’t know how much time staff would need to put in to develop the lessons for Dave Ramsey.
1:22:43 Okay. Is there. Are we able to make an actionable vote? You can’t vote on anything right now.
1:22:53 You have to wait until July 29th or call a special. Right, but that’s what. Again, I just kind of go back to.
1:23:05 The board has already voted on this this should have already been happening. The implementation should have been going on behind the scenes. To change gears without a vote feels completely disingenuous to an open process.
1:23:13 Right. And free isn’t better. My other concern is this.
1:23:18 I mean, I think we’re weeding through a lot of the free books we’ve had in libraries and things of that nature. Free doesn’t always mean better. And I’m not equating their material to what we’re dealing with on some of the others.
1:23:28 But if we’re going to do what’s best for kids, I think we need to set them up with the best curriculum that they can possibly have. And there is a vast difference in the content in both of those. When you look at them, I mean, honestly, one of them is done.
1:23:31 Everfi is done in kind of a cartoony. It’s just not. I mean, it’s better than nothing, but it’s not as good as.
1:23:43 As what Ramsey Solutions has put together. So my. My ask is, what.
1:24:02 What are we going to do with this now at this point? Because they’re moving forward on a different direction. The board is even advised. It sounds like the district is.
1:24:10 So. So here, let me finish. So, point of order.
1:24:16 I’m sure Mr. Gibbs would agree. The board can’t necessarily vote today, but they could give direction. Yeah, they can provide consensus for you and to take back to your staff if it wants to go that way.
1:24:43 The board has approved Ramsey and authorized the spending of those funds. So I would have to dig into the other stuff, and I don’t know how long that’ll take me to shake out direction with a meeting. So how do we give direction with a meeting that we may or may not find out information in the mean, you know what I mean? Like, it’s just a.
1:25:00 If we, if we were to move towards making a decision. Decision to move towards the Dave Ramsey. And then we decide, Paul goes back, finds out that there’s.
1:25:08 We can’t order the books, we can’t do this, we can’t do that. You know what I mean? It’s just we’re kind of in a hard spot here. More on Dr. Rendell.
1:25:17 Just to find out, in all honesty, all those steps have already been taken and approved. We just didn’t pull the trigger on that curriculum purchase because first it was being challenged and second, during the time it was challenged, we found a free resource that we already had access to and talked with the board members individually, decided to go in that direction. The board could give me direction today to go back to the original doesn’t have to be a vote, but if that’s the direction of the board, we can do that.
1:25:19 And I was under the same impression. The timeline that you had, once it was challenged, we found out that there was potentially a, you know, a free curriculum with a company that we’ve already been doing business with. So part probably has gone through the company itself, through the vetting process.
1:25:35 That’s my guess. But I mean, I can’t say definitively until I investigated. So I don’t know anything about evervine.
1:25:41 Okay. So until further, I just like. So I’ve.
1:25:46 As far as. Regardless of the topic, I agree with what you’re saying. Talking about the process and not being followed by the process that the board voted on.
1:26:08 I agree with that 1000%. In defense of Dr. Rendell, I know he spoke to me and I’m sure he spoke to each one of you about it. It’s not a board vote, but I think he was trying to gain consensus because of the circumstances.
1:26:26 So in just defense of Dr. Rendell, you know, not trying to beat him up. Too bad about that part of it. But I agree.
1:26:35 When the board takes action, which should be. We should. It should move on down.
1:26:39 Next step should be taken in this particular case with trusting the academic professionals. I don’t profess to be well versed in financial literacy, so I will trust the judgment of the staff as far as if they think it’s as good or better than the Ramsey. I’m not questioning your concerns, but I would trust the academic side of the quality of the material, of the Everfine material.
1:26:51 I would trust the staff’s viewpoint on that. So in search of a plan B, we. Some of us thought this probably would have been the Plan A if we had noted ahead of time.
1:27:00 Correct. That’s the. The feedback we got from staff in the curriculum department was that if this had been an option earlier, they would have recommended this as an option.
1:27:10 Correct. So staff would have recommended the other one. Yes, correct.
1:27:29 A free resource with the everfi. But again, I go back to the process, the process of curriculum being implemented and being able to have the community weigh in on it and have. That didn’t happen with everfi at all.
1:27:37 And honestly, I don’t. I have to wholeheartedly push back and respectfully disagree because if you sit through the modules of either one of those, there’s no way you’re gonna look at one and be like that. There’s.
1:27:44 They’re just so different, like, so unbelievably different. And We’ve had access to both of those. So since May 20, we’ve had Ramsey solutions for a long time, but we’ve had access to both of them.
1:27:49 So if you sit through both of them and pull up just a module, a module, look at them and see which one is going to be more appealing to students. Are they going to listen to and engage and actually understand the concepts that are being talked about or are they going to watch a cartoon that’s like do, do, do, do do, you know, it’s just a little different. So when I look at the two, I’m going, one is just there.
1:28:01 Not even. This is apples and oranges. And are we going to do what’s best for kids? And the whole point of the financial literacy implementation really with our legislation is to set our kids up for success leaving our schools.
1:28:28 Right. I feel like, and I will acknowledge my bias to Dave Ramsey. I will.
1:28:39 I understand that program inside and out. I know how it works. I’ve used it.
1:28:51 Our family is a huge Dave Ramsey fan. So. But I think that the board needs to make at least weigh in on this conversation because the process was completely circumvented to some degree or talked about behind.
1:29:02 But I. How does that work? I mean that you could in essence undermine any board decision by going and one on one talking to us to get a reverse reversal on whatever we vote on. And that to me, I don’t, I don’t agree with that happening or my, my thing is, is that regardless of ours, is it the intent to elect, allow it to go through a committee in order to make that choice or dilemmas? Yes. So.
1:29:12 But it may have already gone through a committee is what I’m hearing. You say it did not go through this cycle for. Not this cycle, but maybe a previous one if it’s being used.
1:29:38 Again, I have not looked into this at all. So my assumption is if teachers have been using it, then it has been approved at some point. It did not go through as a proposed option for this cycle.
1:30:04 Correct. The EVERFI curriculum was not part of the instructional materials review process for the core instructional material. It’s been used as a supplement by many of our teachers for many years.
1:30:09 Is there. Do you know, Dr. Rendell, do you know why we didn’t bring it as one of the options? It was not on the state approved list. We typically don’t review things that are not on the state approved list.
1:30:24 Again, talking to the team in curriculum, if it had been on the list of things to review, their feedback was that they would have selected it. But it was not because, you know, it was not on the state approved list because everfi did not bid or whatever submit their materials to be on the state approved list. If we were to try to reconvene a committee, it wouldn’t make it in time before the thing.
1:30:29 No, really, I mean, you know, the, the board is discussing it now again, the board could give direction one way or the other right now. I mean I wouldn’t want to wait any longer because if we are, if the direction is to move back to the Dave Ramsey curriculum, then we need to get the purchase order pushed through. Even so if there’s a 22 tie, Paul, we’re not in a small board where the chair gets the extra vote.
1:30:54 No. So then it would vote anyways. It’s just providing consensus of the board.
1:31:08 If the board says hey, the mortuary have you support going with the vote from we voted on twice approval, then the superintendent can act on that. But if you want to take a vote, you gotta call a meeting or wait to the 29th. Well, I don’t.
1:31:18 So board, I guess we need to know what the direction is. I mean we’ve voted on this twice. It’s gone through public hearing.
1:31:32 We’ve had an officer that our district paid money to have. We’ve, you know, listen to every single challenger who has objected to it. Are we going to honor the process which has been set in place for us vetting curriculum by having a committee make a recommendation to our board and then upholding that? Or are we going to circumvent that process and allow this to happen, which could happen with other instances? Just so you know, like this, that that’s of concern to me.
1:31:55 Like the process is the process and if we don’t follow it or we change gears in the middle, I don’t think that’s very fair and that’s definitely not transparent and honest. So that’s one of my biggest pushbacks. But I also really wholeheartedly believe in this curriculum.
1:32:19 Is this an annual curriculum? Is this a. Are we moving forward with a. So usually a five year curriculum is usually adopted for five year cycle.
1:32:26 So this would be for the next five years we would use this other version rather than what we have. There’s no trigger to. Well, you can, you can change curriculums anytime you want, but the instructional materials review is usually every five years or so.
1:32:37 Where you at, Gene? And what’s her, what’s her savings again? So $736,000. This has been reviewed by staff, by curriculum staff, yes. Not by the instructional reviews committee, but reviewed by the curriculum staff.
1:32:57 Right. Social studies curriculum staff. Is there, is there a way that we can approve the free version for this first year and then move towards reestablishing? That was part of the conversation that I had with each of the board members was, you know, we could use this curriculum for a year and if we didn’t think it met our standards, then we could always go back to, to the Dave Ramsey curriculum or another curriculum.
1:33:05 He hasn’t had a face to face conversation. I did not look at the comparison between the two. Ms. Wright.
1:33:22 I apologize for that. That’s all right. The Dave Ramsey curriculum, just for reference too, it came up significantly cheaper than the other curriculum that was being reviewed when they were looking at it.
1:33:25 And the recommendation of the committee obviously at that time was Dave Ramsey. So I just kind of go back to are we gonna do what’s best for students? That’s really where I end this one. I would hate for a year to go by and that many students to have gone through a class that we go, oh, we could have given them something that’s maybe a little more useful for them and help them financially make better decisions before they leave our school buildings.
1:33:35 So board. It’s your will. So what’s the direction? I don’t believe this.
1:33:46 I can’t. I honestly don’t believe that that curriculum has been reviewed. Like you said, the company might have, but we haven’t had a committee together to go through the personal finance.
1:33:55 I have no idea. A portion of it. Not an instructional reviews.
1:33:59 Not an instructional materials review committee with outside like stakeholders and so on. No. Right.
1:34:10 So yeah, I probably just. It’s a savings of $750,000 for what sounds like a less. So it’d be a savings.
1:34:15 Yeah. We would be able to reallocate resources to other places. The only issue is that we may not have gone through the proper process for a selection.
1:34:25 And one might be better than the other. Correct. It’s just.
1:34:28 It’s a tough spot where we’re in right now. I do remember Dr. Rendell asking, you know what I mean, Information about it. I just wasn’t aware of that process that we had with the.
1:34:34 Going through the. You know what I mean, for selection inside the committees. Correct.
1:35:06 So yeah, because this is outside instructional. Like it was used as a. What before? Supplement.
1:35:20 Supplementation. Thank you for that. But.
1:35:38 Which doesn’t need reviewing. But Correct. To actually use as a curriculum.
1:35:44 We kind of have a process for that. We definitely have a process for that in this case, it hasn’t been used. So I think, yeah, I think we would be best suited to go with the process that we’ve already had in place and uphold the committee that we have had in place.
1:35:54 I mean, they put a lot of time and effort into that. So if we had the appetite, I mean, I would go to bed tonight feeling a lot better that we followed the process. If you had said, Paul, Yep.
1:36:11 I already know what date we. This one was approved previous for curriculum, then that’s another story. But if we have to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down right now, I would probably go with.
1:36:28 Let’s go with what. I know and I know the Dave Ramsey course is. Is a heck of a course.
1:36:36 I’ve gone through it. I’ve been a part of it. I brought it into my congregation myself personally, so I know it’s good.
1:36:48 So I would be leading back towards continued with the Dave Ramsey course event. Joan. I defer to the staff and then I’ll stick with the verify.
1:36:51 But I do agree with Ms. Wright’s point about the process, and that’s something we definitely should be mindful of moving forward. I don’t agree with it that, you know, once the board takes action, it should be these were extenuating circumstances. And my whole.
1:36:56 I agree with you. My whole thing is, is that going through that process of, of selection is a big deal. Right.
1:37:05 Like when we do our math books, our social studies books, we do all that stuff. And I know that Dr. Rendell’s mindset is that we could save the revenue. It’s an already existing one.
1:37:23 We can save money. And that makes total sense. Staff’s behind it.
1:37:39 Let’s roll. We don’t have to learn a new thing. All those other pieces, I totally get that.
1:37:44 My concern was, is the not going through that process. Process is where. That’s why I was trying to get indication from Paul as to where we were with.
1:37:57 That makes total sense. So I would be in favor of continuing with what the committee said minus any kind of other hiccups or anything like that. I feel more strongly that if we’re going to move through a process and have it selected and go, that what we do is we’re missing.
1:38:04 And I apologize because I didn’t know it was part of the original process to go through. But the thing is, is that that Dames Ramsey curriculum may have smoked this curriculum inside of that committee. We just don’t know.
1:38:25 You know what I mean? So, you know, from the. From our own people. From our own people.
1:38:34 Yeah. That may have had the difference. The only difference on that, and correct me if I’m wrong, the only difference is the committee’s made a difference of community people and we’re trusting our academic professionals version here.
1:38:38 So the biggest hang up is we’re not even quite sure. Yes and no. So I real fast to what he just said.
1:38:43 This one actually was formally challenged and we actually paid for a hearing officer to come and make sure that it complied with all the standards that are set forth by the state. We’re not doing anything that’s out of line here. And our district pass paid good money for that person to come here and hear every petitioner’s objection to the curriculum and then issue his final ruling, which he did.
1:39:19 So that’s. That part of it is like, well, we don’t, I don’t know everfi. I can only tell you what I’ve seen by looking at both of those.
1:39:38 They’re very, very different. And everfi might meet all the state standards too. It doesn’t mean it’s the best thing though.
1:39:42 That’s the only thing I’m saying. I believe in the other one, but. Sorry, go ahead, continue.
1:39:54 Yeah, I just, I’ll just reiterate, but when I refer to the process, my concern was just that the board took action and it’s something, you know, the wheels didn’t start turning immediately, but given the circumstances, I understand why they didn’t. I just fiscally, you know, try to be as prudent as possible. If our academic professionals say that it’s, it’s a good, good curriculum and they would have voted for it over Dave Ramsey, then I’m all for saving $730,000 that we can redirect to something that’s meaningful and can help improve our students education in another way.
1:39:56 Once we order the $730,000 Dave Ramsey, does that mean that those books are ordered and then is that a renewal of 700,000 every year? No, that’s a one time cost. So then once, if we decided to do this, that’s the, that’s what we would. I mean it would be prudent for us to continue to do that for the next thing.
1:40:08 But there’s. We don’t have to order anything for the other one. Is that what I’m hearing you say? Correct.
1:40:17 It’s an online curriculum. And the difference between the Dave Ramsey and the other one is that there’s components of Dave Ramsey that are handbooks and worksheets and stuff like that to printed materials. Yes, yes, both.
1:40:26 There’s where it is. It has. Online.
1:40:36 It probably is a lot better. It just stinks. Because we’re in a position where you have academia and savings versus community and what might be a better program, I don’t know.
1:40:38 And here we are trying to make a decision on that with a process that was on the back end. My gut says to stick with the process. I just know, if I may.
1:40:43 If I’m gonna have my car worked on, and I may think it’s this, but I’m gonna trust the mechanic to tell me what to do. I’m gonna trust academic professionals, even though I may think. Let me just ask you this.
1:40:46 If the guy on this corner that has his garage door open that says, I can fix your car for $100, do you go to him because it’s cheaper? No, I wouldn’t do that. But. But I would trust him with the people that have.
1:40:54 Are the professionals. And. And they are far more.
1:41:10 I’m not saying I don’t trust the professionals arena than I am. So that’s that. We’ve.
1:41:15 Honestly. We haven’t even heard. We haven’t heard from them directly either.
1:41:19 So on what, you know, anyways, I’ll. I’ll leave that alone. I’m good with going with Dave Ramsey because the process we needed to go through was not followed.
1:41:23 To select a new one and to go, I’m okay with that. That’s where I think it is for me. If it was that the other one had gone through it and it had been selected or it was at least close or some sort of an argument to go there, I did not know that prior to what just happened.
1:41:27 And I apologize, Dr. Rendell, for not doing that. I’m okay. That’s where I sit.
1:41:31 I just. I was hoping that Katie could come in because I thought we were going to be two. Two.
1:41:36 But it looks like it’s a three one, so. Okay. Yeah.
1:42:08 So, Mr. Chair, I believe we have direction. We do. We do. Sorry for the blind side, guys. Yeah. I was like, no. Well, I thought we already voted this twice. So honestly, I thought this was already a done deal to some extent until the conversation came up. So. Great. Anything else? All right. There being no further business, this meeting, is it. Sa. It.