Updates on the Fight for Quality Public Education in Brevard County, FL
0:00 music
2:24 Thank you.
6:57 Good morning.
6:58 The January 24, 2023 board work session is now in order.
6:58 Paul, please call the roll.
6:58 Mr.
7:00 here.
7:01 call the roll.
7:02 Thank you.
7:32 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
7:39 and to the republic for
7:41 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty
7:45 and justice for all.
7:47 Before we begin, I want to acknowledge that this is a schedule
7:52 to be a long meeting.
7:53 Therefore, it will be stopped around noon for a one-hour lunch
7:56 break so that board,
7:57 staff, and the public attending can refresh and be ready to
7:59 return to the conversations.
8:01 Now we’ll begin our first topic, which is discipline follow-up.
8:04 I’m going to give the floor to Dr. Schiller to start it off as
8:06 he has some of his recommendations.
8:08 Dr. Schiller, you have the floor.
8:10 Thank you, Mr. Susan, and good morning.
8:13 Thank you, Mr. Susan, and good morning, board members.
8:15 Very nice to be here on my maiden voyage of the first board
8:21 meeting.
8:22 One of the issues that came up, obviously, at our retreat was
8:25 the extent to which, where
8:27 do we stand with all the matter that we could put under the
8:30 umbrella called board issues regarding
8:34 discipline?
8:36 And I would like to kind of go through where we are to this date.
8:40 Staff has worked overtime in reading me in.
8:43 And also, I’d like to share with you how I could propose to the
8:48 board we go forward in order
8:50 to try to bring – I believe we can successfully bring to
8:54 resolution for the board and all the
8:56 actions that the board would like to take.
8:58 And that would satisfy most of the needs, if not all, prior to
9:03 the assumption of duties by
9:05 your permanent superintendent.
9:06 And so, I would like to, if I could, have the time, ladies and
9:11 gentlemen, to go through.
9:15 There are a number of features and factors and moving pieces
9:18 that we’re dealing with under
9:19 this omnibus of discipline issues.
9:23 You originally received a memorandum from Deputy Superintendent
9:29 Thede as well as Mr. Gibbs back
9:33 in the middle, early December as a result of the board meeting
9:37 in early December, at which
9:39 time they had explained that the actual policies and
9:43 administrative regulations that were in effect,
9:48 remained in effect, and these policies and administrative
9:52 regulations would be in effect and implemented
9:55 as they are until such time that the board took action to change
10:00 any of the policies.
10:02 If, indeed, you want to stop at any time to get verification
10:06 from Mr. Gibbs or whatever,
10:08 Mr. Thede, of course, Dr. Thede is not here, but you have a copy
10:12 of that letter.
10:13 So, in effect, the board policies in your policy book and in the
10:20 board manual, your 500 series
10:24 rules of student conduct, removal of out of school suspension,
10:28 disciplinary placement, expulsion
10:29 of students, and the cell phone policy, wireless communications,
10:37 are all standard and in effect.
10:40 The administrative regulations are updated every year.
10:45 In fact, starting with, I can’t recall the date with Dr. Blackburn,
10:52 who was a former superintendent here, there is a whole booklet
10:57 goes out in each year based on federal and state statutes and
11:01 changes that’s updated.
11:03 The last update was a revision on July of 2022, and that was
11:11 brought before the former board, and that’s what’s been
11:15 controlling.
11:16 And every year, there’s an effort to upgrade that, bring it out
11:20 to the staff, to the board.
11:22 So, one of the things that we’ll be talking about next will be
11:26 the policy book and the administrative regulations.
11:29 The regulations and policy that you have here, with regard to
11:33 administrative regulations, of course, you know, administrative
11:37 regulations are intended to bring clarity and direction and to
11:42 the staff, the implementation of the policies.
11:44 There’s not been a generalized practice here, and if you look at
11:48 the policy book, you look at the administrative regulations, it’s
11:51 kind of thin.
11:52 One of the things I’m going to ask you to consider going forward,
11:56 if the board wishes, as they go through the bylaws and the
11:59 policies, if you want the administrative regulations regularly,
12:04 as many boards do, brought to you to make sure they’re in
12:07 alignment with the policy for implementation.
12:10 One of the issues that were – so that’s a question that we’ll
12:14 have at the next session about review of policies and whether or
12:17 not, just for alignment, does this board wish to now have the
12:21 administrative regulations?
12:22 That are in the province that are in the province of being
12:25 drafted by your superintendent historically, but they’ve not
12:28 necessarily come back to the board for your review and approval.
12:33 But at this point in time, I just want to reiterate that these
12:40 policies are in effect, and administrative regulations, and all
12:45 of the updates that the staff get from the state and the federal
12:49 government,
12:49 are in effect, and all of these policies are in effect.
12:52 That’s what is the action that’s taking place.
12:53 It also leads to some kind of inconsistent application at the
12:59 school-based level.
13:01 Not by neglect, not by intention, but it really is pretty much
13:06 predicated on the fact that there is some variation, and case by
13:11 case, we have our principals doing some interpretation.
13:15 Now, as a sidelight to it, one of the needs that we need to
13:18 address, as our staff will explain, as they’ve told me, is that
13:23 there’s a little bit of a disconnect between what is required by
13:32 the statutes, what is required by the board policies, and how
13:38 that is then translated into the adequate training.
13:42 And that’s due to lack of time and resources that staff may have
13:46 that we’re able to take what’s happening and to help our
13:50 principals and our teachers fully understand the implementation.
13:54 Now, that’s something that senior staff and I have been talking
13:58 about, particularly yesterday at a great length of time, and it’s
14:01 not a function of not doing.
14:03 It’s a function that there has not been adequate time or maybe
14:07 resources to be able to do the kind of in-service training,
14:10 particularly at the start of the school year before school, so
14:13 that everyone understands the clarity of what’s being expected.
14:18 So that is a budgetary issue, as your policy indicates, that the
14:23 superintendent is responsible, along with staff, to address
14:28 collective bargaining, and in working with our leadership, they
14:33 would like for the time that I’m here, at least to do the
14:36 language, bring it to the board of the proposals and different
14:40 needs that the board has and what those folks have in
14:44 representing their constituencies and stakeholders.
14:45 And, of course, the fiscal side of the collective bargaining
14:50 would be handled after I would leave in June 1, when the state
14:55 knows the funding.
14:57 So, what we’re trying to do is to kind of lay out a couple of
15:00 things.
15:01 One, we know what now is existent.
15:06 We know, and Paul, Mr. Gibbs can then bring clarity to that
15:10 should you wish now.
15:12 Staff has worked diligently to try to adhere to the board’s
15:17 policies and regulations, and it’s just a matter now of bringing
15:21 it all together, at least for that side.
15:24 So, what do we expect staff to administer consistently if,
15:27 indeed, that there’s a dichotomy between what this board’s
15:30 expecting and what’s happening at the schools?
15:34 I believe, in my judgment, after going through all this, being
15:38 briefed by Dr. Thetti, being briefed by former assistant
15:42 superintendent Moore, by Paul, by our good staff, that people
15:47 are doing what – in the framework of what’s there.
15:51 If it’s at variance with what the board wishes, I think the
15:55 board will have to then address these particular policies, and
15:58 then the administrative regs would be so revised within the
16:02 context of the requirements at the state and federal level,
16:07 which is causing some issues.
16:08 So, that’s the number one thing I want to talk about where we
16:12 are today, and where, perhaps, Chairman, the direction of the
16:17 board would be with regard to starting from the policies, those
16:22 policies that are existent that you review and wish to have
16:27 change on the majority of the board vote, or full board vote, I
16:31 should say, and also then the alignment of administrative regs.
16:35 And if we can get this all done, we can get that into effect as
16:38 soon as everything lines up, but certainly must be done before
16:42 the start of next school year, so the adequate training in
16:47 service and explanation could be done for the community, for
16:50 stakeholders, and, as importantly, our administrators.
16:53 Now, if I’ve left anything out, just help me, staff, if indeed
16:57 there’s anything you would like for me to augment.
17:00 All right.
17:01 I would also point out is that our staff – I mean, the amount
17:08 of experience that we have in the staff is something I’ve never
17:13 had the pleasure of working with.
17:15 The amount of knowledge and loyalty to BPS is just astounding.
17:22 It really is from my five-decade experience.
17:26 The bottom line is that they follow what it is that you, as a
17:30 policy board, deem as direction, and that former boards have
17:36 deemed as direction.
17:37 The administrative regulations, as had been written, starting,
17:42 and therefore, if we can find and identify some of the variances
17:46 and some of the ways to remedy it, we would.
17:49 Let me pause here for any clarifications up to this point.
17:52 Thank you, Dr. Schiller.
17:54 So let me get this straight.
17:55 Basically, our staff followed our discipline policies and
17:59 administrative procedures that were passed by the board, and you
18:04 feel that if there’s any discrepancies, you’d like us to bring
18:07 it forward and bring those up today.
18:09 That’s the first of these disciplines.
18:11 And to proceed with the appropriate changes to the policies that
18:15 reflect this board.
18:16 Sure.
18:17 So then we would then rewrite the administrative regs to make
18:21 sure they’re in alliance and then regenerate that and then go
18:25 through the training and service sessions so everyone
18:28 understands.
18:29 Again, there’s a moving field of federal regulations in Title IX
18:34 that’s been recently changed.
18:36 There’s a moving aspect.
18:38 We’re constantly getting updates from the state.
18:41 So there’s a balance there, sir.
18:43 Thank you.
18:44 So basically, you have one, two, three things that you were
18:46 mentioned inside your discipline issues and matters that you
18:49 brought forward.
18:50 This is kind of purpose.
18:52 This is where you’re talking.
18:53 The next one is established steering committee.
18:55 The next one is RSM audit and then draft for the steering
18:59 committee.
19:00 I think those are four issues.
19:02 I wanted to give you the opportunity.
19:03 Did you want to stay on number one for the first time?
19:05 If you wish, you tell me, sir, if you want to pause here or I
19:07 can go forward.
19:08 I always like following up with just one item so that we can
19:10 move through it and stuff like that.
19:12 We’re on time with that.
19:13 Sure.
19:14 Okay.
19:15 So basically, now we’re going to have discussion based on the
19:18 discipline that we were talking about.
19:20 So Dr. Schiller says that he met with staff and that they came
19:23 forward with that they have been following the policies and the
19:26 administrative procedures that we have passed.
19:29 Is there any discussion?
19:30 I’ll go to Ms. Jenkins.
19:33 Dr. Schiller, thank you for highlighting that all of the
19:38 supposed concerns that were highlighted recently are addressed
19:43 in our policies, that our administrative procedures are
19:48 addressing those, that our staff has the intentions to follow
19:50 those.
19:50 And if they’re not being followed, that it’s not due to neglect.
20:07 I appreciate that very much.
20:08 I’m so tired of having this conversation and so I’m going to
20:16 take this opportunity to say what I need to say so I can relinquish
20:23 myself from this conversation going forward.
20:24 I feel like over the past two months we’ve participated in a
20:32 circus I feel like we’ve done damage to this district, to our
20:39 staff, to our students, to cause fragments within the business
20:42 community because of the perception that we put out into the
20:43 community.
20:43 And I felt like I knew why it was happening, but I really wanted
20:52 to know why and so I questioned it and of course, you know, I
20:57 don’t get a response to some of my questions but I did from the
21:01 Brevard County Sheriff’s Office.
21:04 I questioned how that video came to be and got some interesting
21:11 responses.
21:13 I was actually shocked by how much they responded.
21:16 Again, I can’t talk about these things outside of the sunshine.
21:22 I didn’t get this stuff until I think December 29th and you all
21:26 are aware I had bigger things to talk about on January 9th than
21:30 to talk about this so if you’re wondering why I’m talking about
21:33 it now.
21:33 Also, we put discipline on the agenda again so I’m talking about
21:37 it.
21:38 I’m frustrated.
21:39 I’m frustrated that we were forced to participate in the circus.
21:41 I’m frustrated that our staff and our students and our community
21:45 was basically a casualty in this conversation.
21:47 And we are here today saying, yeah, we’ve got these policies in
21:51 place and these procedures in place and sure, we can always
21:55 improve and clean up.
21:56 But there’s nothing major that we’ve made changes to.
22:01 I received, I guess a letter I’d call it, that Mr. Ivy had
22:12 drafted back in August and it started off with chairperson blank.
22:18 And this letter was emailed to Mr. Susan the morning of November
22:22 22nd, the day that our two new board members were sworn in.
22:26 And the letter was concerning discipline.
22:31 And it basically was asking the school board, again it wasn’t
22:35 addressed to anybody yet, it said chairperson blank, to take a
22:38 look at our wireless communication device policy.
22:42 And considering increasing the discipline for students who are
22:50 using their cell phones to record students who are being bullied
22:58 or harassed and putting it on social media, which is a pretty
23:01 reasonable request.
23:02 He was specifically asking us to follow Polk County’s policy.
23:08 That same policy was also sent to Mr. Susan the morning of
23:11 November 22nd.
23:12 It was attached to the email, I have it here in case anyone
23:15 wants to question the validity of that.
23:17 They also gave me their phone calls in which two were made that
23:21 evening during the board meeting to Mr. Susan.
23:25 One went to call waiting, one was received during a recess of
23:28 our meeting, and then when we came back from the recess is when
23:32 my fellow board member who’s been here for six years went on to
23:36 pontificate about the discipline issues in our schools.
23:39 I then received text messages that made it very clear that this
23:47 was not just something initiated by Mr. Ivy, that it was a group
23:54 communication with the union, Mr. Susan and Mr. Ivy to organize
24:00 this conversation.
24:01 Why this frustrates me is because when we came into the meeting
24:05 on December, I think it was 8th or 9th, and you all can confirm
24:09 this, we never heard anything in that video or from Mr. Susan
24:14 about what we were going to actually talk about that day.
24:16 Ms. Campbell actually sent an email asking specifically what
24:18 policies we were going to discuss that day.
24:20 We didn’t get any follow-up.
24:21 And when we came in in the folder was the wireless communication
24:25 device policy that we never discussed, was never brought to our
24:28 attention.
24:29 And if you recall at the end of that meeting, after talking
24:32 about significant behaviors, we started talking about wireless
24:37 communication devices out of nowhere.
24:40 The following board meeting in our folder, again, was solely the
24:45 wireless communication device policy.
24:49 Why does this frustrate me?
24:51 Because this request that clearly someone was aware of is not a
24:55 crazy request to have a conversation about how do we discipline
24:58 students when they’re filming others getting bullied or harassed
25:03 and putting it on social media.
25:04 That’s a really rational request.
25:06 But we didn’t have that conversation.
25:08 Instead, we put on a show.
25:10 We put on a circus.
25:11 We gathered members of the community.
25:13 We concerned them.
25:14 We concerned the business community.
25:17 They’re very, very concerned about how we look to the rest of
25:22 this nation because of the coverage on these conversations.
25:28 It bothers me.
25:29 I feel like I’ve been taken along on a circus for no reason.
25:33 One that I, quite frankly, don’t want a ticket to any longer.
25:37 It is self-serving.
25:39 And it is foolish.
25:40 It doesn’t benefit our students.
25:41 It doesn’t benefit our staff.
25:42 Because here we are two months later and we aren’t making any
25:45 changes.
25:46 We haven’t made any change.
25:47 And quite frankly, again, the one that was requested, if it
25:52 doesn’t exist here already, we could have a conversation about
25:56 and make a difference for our students and our staff.
25:58 And we haven’t had that conversation.
25:59 And that’s so frustrating to me.
26:02 And the reason I’m putting this out in the air is because, yes,
26:05 I received it and I can’t do it any other way except in the
26:07 sunshine.
26:08 But quite frankly, I want a ticket off of this crazy train.
26:11 I want nothing to do with this.
26:13 If we are going to have real conversations about the problems in
26:16 our schools, I will absolutely participate.
26:18 I want to support our students and our staff.
26:20 If you want to talk about the physical aggression that we hear
26:24 about.
26:24 But if you want to have a real honest conversation and
26:26 acknowledge the data.
26:27 The data that those things are happening in our ESE classrooms.
26:30 Talk about how we can provide better environments for our ESE
26:33 students.
26:34 Provide better resources for those students and teachers to
26:37 provide safer environments.
26:38 And to actually meet their needs.
26:40 I’m here for it.
26:43 But to pretend that our general education students are beating
26:46 up our teachers every day.
26:47 I’m not having that conversation any longer.
26:50 Because it’s just false.
26:52 It makes me sick to my stomach that I had to sit in a room and
26:56 watch TV.
26:57 While we have staff members talking about getting physically
27:01 abused by students.
27:02 To find out those students are blind and cognitively impaired.
27:09 And we are painting a picture that our classrooms are wildly out
27:13 of control.
27:14 When we really should be having a very specific conversation to
27:19 help our kids.
27:20 I’m frustrated.
27:21 And I appreciate Dr. Schiller starting off by saying these
27:28 policies already exist.
27:30 These procedures already exist.
27:32 How can we improve the implementation of them on our campuses?
27:36 That’s the conversation we should be having.
27:39 We shouldn’t be shaming our kids.
27:41 We shouldn’t be shaming our staff.
27:42 And we shouldn’t be degrading the wonderful district that we
27:48 work in.
27:49 And so from this point forward.
27:51 If we aren’t going to talk about actual change and progress.
27:53 Please do not call on me.
27:55 Because I really no longer want to participate in this show.
27:59 I am not campaigning for someone’s future.
28:03 Thank you.
28:04 Ms. Jenkins, you said you have copies of these things.
28:07 I sure do.
28:08 Can you provide those to us?
28:09 I can.
28:10 They’re right here.
28:11 And if you can, do you have copies for everybody?
28:13 Or do you need Mrs. Aguirre to make the copies?
28:16 I can absolutely ask her to do that for you.
28:18 I’m checking my email and I don’t have an email from Sheriff Ivey
28:23 on the 22nd.
28:25 I’ll take a look at what you have and cross-reference it.
28:27 You did not receive it from Sheriff Ivey.
28:29 It’s received it from Brevard County Sheriff’s Officer.
28:32 Our security.
28:34 I have one email in here that’s, well, I guess we’ll get to the
28:37 public records.
28:37 Mr. Susan, I have it on.
28:38 I have it in print.
28:39 Yep.
28:41 We’ll see.
28:42 All right.
28:43 Okay.
28:44 Ms. Campbell, you have something to say?
28:46 Yes.
28:47 I will just address what Dr. Schiller suggested.
28:50 He would like to have some consensus on a couple of things.
28:53 Yes.
28:54 If it’s normal practice outside of our district and other
29:00 districts across the state and the
29:03 nation for the boards to approve administrative – you keep
29:06 saying regulations.
29:07 For us, it’s administrative procedures.
29:08 Same thing.
29:09 I think that’s great.
29:10 There’s certainly been plenty of conversations where I’ve had
29:12 community members ask me a question.
29:14 I said, well, that’s not policy.
29:15 That’s administrative procedure.
29:16 It would be good just to have our eyes on that.
29:21 Right.
29:22 Exactly.
29:23 I’m all for that.
29:24 I think it would be good for them to – you know, just to come
29:27 through us because ultimately
29:29 they – we are – we are – hold accountable for those.
29:32 I absolutely agree with additional training.
29:35 I absolutely agree that we need to make that part of the
29:38 collective bargaining conversation.
29:40 I have – I’ve said it before, but I think we need to not give
29:44 up any more professional development
29:46 time because, you know, the people that we usually hear the most
29:50 pushback on professional
29:51 development time are those who are – have been teachers for a
29:55 long time or have a certain
29:56 level of expertise.
29:57 I don’t have a problem with classroom discipline.
29:58 I’m like, well, she’s been teaching for some time and had that
29:59 training.
29:59 However, we have a growing number of teachers who are very young,
30:09 very new, did not come
30:12 out of an education background.
30:13 And I will tell you, having – having a education degree, I had
30:19 one semester of classroom management.
30:21 And then I got thrown out into student teaching, which we call
30:24 internships now.
30:25 And I will tell you, as a student teacher, most of our student
30:27 teacher, our interns get placed
30:29 with master teachers who have classroom discipline already
30:34 established, which is not necessarily
30:36 the real world when our teachers come in and they have their own
30:39 classroom, their first classroom
30:40 of their own, and they have to establish that themselves.
30:43 And so that professional development is so vital.
30:46 And as Dr. Schiller mentioned, we have changing regulations.
30:51 We have updates every year from the state, from the federal
30:55 government.
30:56 We as a board have updates, and it looks like we may have more
30:59 updates.
31:00 And so I will fight for that professional development time.
31:03 I absolutely think we need to hold onto that and elevate that,
31:05 not just for our teachers,
31:06 but for our other staff as well, IAs, bus drivers, as we have
31:10 opportunity, as well as our administrators,
31:12 who have a lot of burdens, but they need to, you know, I want to
31:15 make sure they have the time
31:16 to be clear on what our expectations are of them.
31:19 And if we’re going to hold them accountable, then we are
31:20 accountable to provide that training
31:23 and that opportunity.
31:24 So those recommendations that he brought forward, I’m in favor
31:29 of that.
31:30 Because as I said on the December 8th meeting, I think a lot of
31:33 this is not necessarily policy.
31:35 It’s implementation.
31:39 If I may just add clarification, Mr. Chairman, to what Ms.
31:43 Campbell is offering.
31:44 Your board policy number 1030.01, development of administrative
31:50 regulations.
31:51 If the board delegates to the, if I may read it, sir.
31:54 Yep.
31:55 The board delegates to the superintendent the authority to
31:58 determine whether administrative
32:00 procedures will be needed to implement each of the policies.
32:03 Further goes on, these procedures shall be consistent with the
32:08 adopted policies
32:10 and shall describe the manner with which those policies are to
32:14 be implemented.
32:16 Further, it goes on to say upon the recommendation, the board
32:20 should adopt an administrative
32:21 procedure when required to do so by law or when in a judgment of
32:24 the superintendent adoption
32:25 by the board is advisable.
32:28 So it leaves it, and if you will wish to revise that to make it
32:32 a mandatory, thinking of what
32:34 you want to go prospectively from here with your permanent
32:38 superintendent, not just because
32:39 I’m here for three months.
32:41 This is a policy matter for the board to decide.
32:44 I can tell you that is generally around the nation, the need for
32:49 that alignment between
32:50 administrative procedure and board intent from policy is
32:53 something that’s brought back to
32:55 the board for concurrence, and Paul Gibbs can then determine
33:00 what is the proper procedure
33:02 for that.
33:03 And what I’m saying is that in concert to what we’re talking
33:06 about, you were talking about,
33:08 Ms. Campbell, is that I think that’s one of the things that I’m
33:10 recommending here that
33:12 you review and make that determination.
33:14 I would so recommend that you do that, particularly with this
33:17 newly constituted board, so to speak,
33:19 that the administrative regulations are in alignment because,
33:22 again, those are the marching orders
33:24 that we, your staff, have in order to implement your policies.
33:28 And I’ll stop there.
33:33 So your recommendation, just to follow-up, is to professional
33:39 development programs,
33:40 to focus inside of there, and that would help with some of the
33:45 discipline policies?
33:46 Ms. Well, I, specifically that we elevate the importance of that
33:51 when we come to collective bargaining,
33:52 that we make sure that that is, you know, I’m just going to be
33:56 quite plain,
33:57 that we don’t lose another minute of professional development
34:00 time.
34:00 Okay.
34:01 Thank you.
34:02 Thank you very much.
34:03 Go to Ms. Wright.
34:05 Okay.
34:06 I, I recognize that there, there is a disconnect, there’s a miscommunication
34:11 that’s happening right now
34:11 with our district, and, and we can see it when we go into our
34:13 schools.
34:14 And so when I go into one school, the policies that are followed
34:18 there are different than when I go into another school,
34:19 which to me says we have an issue at maybe conveying that, what
34:23 these policies are, what these rules are.
34:26 I think we need to set a clear standard as far as teaching, and
34:30 then, and then follow through with that,
34:33 because we can’t ignore the fact that teachers are leaving, Ms.
34:35 Jenkins.
34:36 So, and they’re citing discipline.
34:37 Our bus drivers are leaving, and they’re citing discipline as a
34:39 reason.
34:40 So that is, that is, that is very evident that we have to get
34:43 this under control.
34:44 And I’ve heard it from so many teachers.
34:47 The plus side is I’ve also heard from our bus depots, and they’ve
34:51 said, hey, discipline is improving.
34:52 And we’re really glad that you’re having these conversations,
34:54 because we are seeing a direct impact on our buses.
34:57 So, I think that I understand what you’re saying, that there is
35:01 miscommunication.
35:02 I don’t want to be part of a circus.
35:03 None of us want to be part of a circus.
35:04 We want to get everything under control in the classroom so that
35:07 our kids can go back to learning in a safe environment.
35:10 But I will also tell you, as someone who has students in the
35:12 classroom, I get reports from my kids of a teacher or a student
35:16 that stood up and cussed out their teacher.
35:19 I hear these things that are happening.
35:20 So we, it is happening.
35:22 It does exist.
35:23 Whether or not it’s being documented or being followed through,
35:26 I don’t really know.
35:27 But there is a disconnect that’s happening, and we need to
35:30 figure out where that lies and how we fix it.
35:32 We have policies, but we also have guidelines.
35:35 And I think that’s where it’s like, or what, I guess we’re not
35:38 calling them standard?
35:39 Administrative procedures.
35:40 Okay.
35:41 So we have policy, which should steer our administrative
35:44 procedures.
35:45 But what are we actually, are we looking at the administrative
35:47 procedures?
35:48 Have we seen all of those?
35:50 Are we reviewing those as a board?
35:52 If we’re not, we need to be.
35:54 Because I think that that becomes very confusing on what is,
35:57 what is the rule here?
35:58 Is it an administrative procedure?
35:59 Is it a policy?
36:00 Do they violate each other?
36:01 I don’t know.
36:02 But regardless, I, we have to, we have to maintain a classroom
36:08 that has.
36:09 It’s a productive learning environment.
36:11 And I think right now we’ve gotten further and further away from
36:14 that.
36:14 It’s coming into line.
36:15 I think the cell phone, that I’m hearing from people, that we’re
36:19 seeing a tremendous impact.
36:20 That kids aren’t bringing their cell phones out, which, praise
36:22 Jesus, that’s great.
36:23 That students are listening to these rules that we’re putting in
36:27 place.
36:27 But we need to make sure that our policies and our
36:29 administrative procedures are being reviewed by this board.
36:32 Because we want to make sure that our teachers are safe.
36:35 And we want to make sure that our students are safe.
36:36 And that’s the ultimate goal here.
36:38 Thank you.
36:39 May I just quickly respond?
36:40 The administrative procedures, we’ll call them that, are also on
36:47 your website.
36:49 At this point in time, from my judgment, they appear to be in
36:53 alignment with the existing policies.
36:55 Okay?
36:56 Over the time, that’s been done by previous boards, previous
37:00 administrations.
37:01 So, it’s just a matter now, are these policies the ones that
37:08 this board want to continue or amend?
37:12 And if they wish to be continued, then you’re basically going to
37:17 then update it for, as it requires, stamped updated.
37:23 If indeed this board determines that its policies, the bylaws,
37:27 the policies that you need to focus on, staff is already at work,
37:33 have triaged out who’s responsible for facilities, who’s
37:36 responsible.
37:37 We’re going to crack through that because cabinet members and
37:41 staff are already at work, like in facilities, like construction.
37:46 You know, the fine people, most of whom are back there, are the
37:48 ones who are going to work on that, that we’ll bring to you this
37:51 spring.
37:52 So, if the board will focus on that, and if the board wishes, so
37:57 that’s where we are with the alignment that’s there, which has
38:02 been there since Dr. Blackburn, is still extant.
38:07 It’s going forward now.
38:09 This board has the obligation, and you have a policy here that
38:13 says every five years all of your policies need to.
38:16 And many of these, you can see, are vintage, ‘08, ‘09.
38:22 2002.
38:24 Yeah.
38:25 2002, not ‘19.
38:27 So, now is the time with this new board, and with an interim
38:31 superintendent, we can get this working.
38:33 The new permanent superintendent coming in will be able to know
38:37 precisely, and that’s wonderful understanding as you go through
38:42 your interview process and search, that she or he may, candidate,
38:47 may understand that this is the policy and the administrative
38:50 regulations that she or he are going to be expected to operate
38:54 on, and the board is comfortable with that.
38:56 That’s the alignment that I’m hoping that we can get to, because
39:00 this fine group of people, you know, as they continue the work
39:05 after June 1, and the new person is operational, they have the
39:10 framework for which they can go about with their training,
39:12 implementation, turnkey.
39:14 And, as you indicated, Ms. Campbell, I think the cabinet will be
39:18 saying 100%.
39:20 They need the time and resources in order to be able to turnkey
39:24 this before we start the new school year.
39:26 As much as we could do now, as soon as you quickly work.
39:29 Thank you.
39:31 Okay.
39:32 Go ahead, Mr. Trent.
39:33 All right.
39:35 Well, the advantage of going last is much as has been said
39:38 already that I agree with.
39:40 Policy.
39:41 And, Dr. Schiller, thank you for all your work you’ve been doing
39:44 so far.
39:45 We’re fortunate to have your experience in this matter.
39:49 I think everything has the proper timing right now.
39:53 So, policy.
39:54 Well, naturally, it would be nice to do that review process and
39:57 amend, and it’s supposed to be every five years, and with the
40:00 new board, again, timing’s great.
40:02 I know we’re going to be taking a look at that, along with the
40:06 new superintendent that’s coming in.
40:09 But, what influences policy?
40:11 Well, I think we see that purpose, or not on purpose, just
40:16 natural, is, you know, personality influences policy, culture
40:22 influences policy.
40:24 But, it’s all about the implementation.
40:26 And, for me, the discipline, if it’s an issue, has all been
40:30 about implementation of current policy.
40:33 And, of course, again, we’ll review and amend the policy.
40:36 But, I think what we’re in the middle of is either a lack or
40:41 just how our policies have been implemented, from the classroom
40:47 to administration to district.
40:48 But, I think this deep dive into this discipline and this
40:52 discipline issue has all been about implementation.
40:55 So, I think that’s what we’re taking the cover off of now and
40:59 saying, you know, as a result of how we have been implementing
41:03 our policies, what are we living with now?
41:06 And, I think we see what we’ve had.
41:09 And, the teachers have been reaching out.
41:12 And, seriously, things have been changing, all the way from the
41:16 bus.
41:17 1010 has been saying that, you know, things are looking up.
41:21 They’re excited about what the future holds.
41:25 And, the biggest thing is that at least we’re not listening.
41:30 So, the whole, if you want to call it show or whatever people
41:34 call it, those were real issues.
41:36 And, those continue to be real issues.
41:39 We just have to get across to all our stakeholders that this is
41:43 going to take time.
41:45 And, I mean, we’ll be here a year from now with progress, but
41:49 yet much work still needing to be done.
41:52 And, professional development is a big issue there.
41:55 Classroom management is the biggest reason teachers leave in the
41:58 first three years of teaching.
42:00 It’s not content that matters.
42:02 It’s being able to handle the classroom.
42:04 So, any attention we can spend on that.
42:08 I mean, any PD that’s actually productive as a teacher, we
42:11 appreciate.
42:12 We’ve had plenty of that or not.
42:15 So, something that we can actually use in a classroom would be
42:17 wonderful.
42:18 Again, lots of work ahead, but you have been working tirelessly,
42:25 and we appreciate that.
42:27 So, I just look forward to what we’re going to be doing here
42:30 moving forward.
42:31 Thanks.
42:32 Thank you, Mr. Trent.
42:35 Truly appreciate it.
42:37 Dr. Schiller, when you spoke to the fidelity of the policies and
42:42 the procedures, did you meet with any principals, sit down and
42:47 communicate to them on what exactly?
42:52 No, sir.
42:53 Time is not permitted.
42:54 I have to rely upon the very fine communications of our
42:58 directors and our assistant superintendents along that line.
43:04 And so, I just have not had the opportunity to get to that level,
43:08 understandably.
43:09 I have, you know, been able to glean from their experiences.
43:15 We benefit in this district by having basically a one to nine
43:19 ratio between directors and principals in schools.
43:22 That is unheard of in other comparable districts here nationwide
43:27 range from a low of one to 15 to a one of 25 in Pinellas County.
43:34 Given the terrific organization that we have of infrastructure,
43:39 the linkage between then, the assistant superintendent, their
43:45 directors, and their linkage to the principals have the
43:48 mechanism in place to be able to identify where the issues are.
43:53 And so, what has come up to me through our assistant superintendents,
43:58 three in the last two weeks, more like two, because Dr. Sullivan
44:02 has gratefully stepped in until we were able to get someone to
44:06 take over as the assistant superintendent.
44:08 This is what is being conveyed to me, and I trust that judgment.
44:13 If I stand corrected, I would ask them to say it, but the bottom
44:17 line is I want to, I just haven’t had that time.
44:20 Okay.
44:21 If, you know, and that’s why going forward, like this go forward
44:25 plan, I’d like to discuss with you when you are ready for it,
44:28 gets to some of those pieces.
44:31 If you can do the policies into add to it number five, the
44:35 wireless communication devices, the student conduct, and that
44:39 other one of the policy manual removal out of school suspension.
44:43 If you put that on the top of your list, at least we can get a
44:47 running start, because those are your policies under the 5,000
44:51 range of students.
44:52 So, and you also have here, as we say, I’m trying to meld the
44:56 two of the next discussion.
44:58 The policies are integrated with the procedures, which is
45:02 integrated with how we go forward to capture this board’s values,
45:07 mission, vision, operational values.
45:10 Those are where, I think, if you dig in right away, and some of
45:14 these are one pagers, we can make progress.
45:16 Now, what I’d like, sir, when you’re ready to turn back, is to
45:20 kind of go through the other steps.
45:23 I have a series of questions I just need to get answered.
45:25 Yes.
45:26 So, you did not meet with any principals.
45:27 You met with some of the labor groups, and what was the outcome
45:30 of some of those conversations?
45:32 What did they ask you and say some of the things that were going
45:35 on that you needed to address?
45:37 I have a whole litany, having met with a large group hosted by
45:42 the BFP, and with representatives from all of the organizations,
45:48 including the sheriff being present, and others.
45:52 And sharing with me everything from the different levels to the
45:57 different real or perceived aspects of the change of the statutes.
46:03 I’m sorry, of the Title IX, and what influence that has had.
46:07 The ongoing advisories and direction that we get most recently
46:11 from, I think, last week, that Mrs. Bland brought to my
46:15 attention.
46:16 There’s constant updates from state, federal, there’s carryover
46:21 from previous administrations at the national level that are
46:25 still in effect that have not been addressed.
46:28 So, what I got from that meeting, and follow-up to meetings with
46:33 each of the organizations representing the principals and the
46:38 teachers in 1010,
46:40 are a whole list of things, including bus drivers when I visited,
46:45 was at the Central Depot, and with the director, Dr. Miller.
46:51 So, I’m hearing everything from, with regard to discipline
46:55 issues that drivers are experiencing, paras have reported, the
47:02 different interpretations of the federal and state statutes.
47:09 And also, what certain procedures for certain students, and what
47:18 kinds of protections, and what kind of steps that need to be
47:23 taken,
47:23 that may be at variance with alternative ways of approaching it
47:27 at the school level.
47:29 So, trying to be on the highest level, I think I’ve heard the
47:33 whole panoply of what is, and I break it down to a couple of
47:36 things.
47:37 One, there’s an e-friend service and clarification that everyone,
47:42 all groups, stakeholders, principals, teachers, parents,
47:46 understand that there are certain kinds of federal and state
47:51 statutes and regulations that have certain controlling elements
47:56 of how students need to be able to be administered,
48:03 which sometimes may run contrary to what one might want to do or
48:07 think is in the best interest.
48:09 We’ve got to clarify that.
48:10 So, part of it is a full, complete understanding by everyone.
48:14 And that’s part of what the rollout of having all of these fine
48:18 committees that have been proposed, a way to, you know, we’ve
48:22 talked also about how we can now hold regional meetings where
48:26 staff and I can address the principals and the teachers to try
48:30 to address some of these matters.
48:32 for clarity right now.
48:36 So, I believe that I’m read in.
48:39 Obviously, each of you, the eyes and ears of your community can
48:44 convey to me more of this so that I can then have our staff look
48:49 at and see what it’d be.
48:51 So, I would chalk up those things, sir, to one, the need for
48:55 full clarity and transparency with all stakeholders and staff
49:00 regarding requirements.
49:03 Number two, with the need for the board to say yes, as Ms.
49:09 Campbell and Ms. Jenkins led off with, these existing policies
49:16 and administrative regs are in effect as they are now being
49:20 administered accordingly.
49:22 Now, the opportunity for the board to redefine, if it wishes,
49:26 these and all the others so that we can now put everything in
49:30 place.
49:31 Some be able to be turned around overnight, others are going to
49:35 be turned around hopefully in time for the new permanent
49:37 superintendent for the new school year.
49:40 Thirdly, the need for the training, the need for the training,
49:45 the need for the training, and a consistent application of your
49:50 board policies and administrative regulations.
49:53 Right now, the inconsistencies are partly due for our
49:56 administrators doing in the best interest of the kids in their
49:59 school.
50:00 That may be a variance at times from another school.
50:03 Thank you, Dr. Schiller.
50:05 One of the things that I would like to reiterate is that the
50:09 head of the BASA, which is the administrators, came forward and
50:12 said that there was an extreme amount of issues that they are
50:15 dealing with.
50:16 Also, the teachers’ union brought forward many assessor
50:19 violations that were not reported.
50:21 We had many of our cell phones.
50:25 We had everything that was inside of there that was communicated
50:28 both on March 8th, inside of your possible committees, is an
50:32 issue.
50:33 And I feel it’s disingenuous to our members of our staff and
50:38 others to say that what is going on is completely normal and
50:42 that people are following the procedures and following the
50:45 administrative policies and everything else.
50:47 When in the fact that we have all of our union groups for the
50:50 first time in unison saying there is something wrong.
50:53 I have multiple principals that are saying that they lost
50:57 complete control over suspensions, which is something that was
51:00 different.
51:01 That was something that our staff gave back to them.
51:05 We have many situations where teachers were talking about cell
51:09 phones not being able to enforce them, but then not being able
51:12 to get the support that they needed.
51:15 So this board on December 8th made a directive to initiate the
51:19 cell phone, to enforce the cell phone policy.
51:23 And since that cell phone policy we set direction, there was
51:27 schools that just didn’t really even make communications, right?
51:31 So when we talk about the cell phone policies and setting
51:34 forward, I’m glad that we’re here today, but I feel very, very,
51:39 it is disingenuous to tell three of our major unions that we
51:44 have together, along with many principals that I’ve had
51:46 conversations with that say otherwise, that the process and
51:49 policies and procedures that we’re following are right.
51:51 And I would argue that until the, I will stand by that and I
51:56 will make that as something that we need to address.
52:00 But I will tell you this much right now, um, we, you opened up
52:04 the discussion around what we want, right?
52:07 Yes, sir.
52:08 So now we’re going to go through each one of the things now that
52:10 we kind of, you know, talked about, hey, this is what it is.
52:12 But I would say directly to you that until you meet with the
52:15 principals, until there’s a survey that goes out to the staff,
52:19 until we truly look at all of our assessor reporting according
52:24 to our workers’ comp claims, according to all of those things,
52:28 we cannot with fidelity say that the policies that we put in and
52:31 the administrative procedures that we were fighting for were
52:33 being followed.
52:34 So I would make that argument immediately.
52:36 And I will be the first person that will come back here and say
52:38 that once those things are done, if they were done to fidelity,
52:41 that we did it right and we’ll go from there.
52:43 But I think, um, Dr. Schiller, that if I can give you direction,
52:46 I would say that before we say that we’re doing the right thing,
52:48 that we do a little bit deeper dive of an investigation.
52:52 Ms. Campbell, I am not finished speaking.
52:54 So the next thing is, is that, um, I would like to talk and
52:58 bring up now, um, the direction that we can start going through
53:02 some of these where, um, I talk about next step is going to be
53:05 cell phones.
53:06 So what I would like to do is we all have had conversations
53:09 since we did that where we’ve seen many of the situations.
53:13 So I would like to say, okay, staff needs direction.
53:16 One of the things that miss, um, Tammy and I had been working on
53:21 is each one of the issues that we come up with giving staff a
53:24 form that they can record and look at that gives them direction.
53:28 So when we come up here and we say, Hey, we want to change this,
53:31 this, and this, if we can have a form that kind of spells it out
53:33 for them, it’d be better.
53:35 And she’s sent a draft for us to take a look at.
53:37 Um, but I wanted to start with Ms. Jenkins on the cell phone
53:42 policies and come across, um, Ms. Jenkins, would you like to
53:46 make any additions or speak to the cell phone policy?
53:50 No, I’m going to go ahead and let Ms. Campbell say what she
53:53 needed to say.
53:54 Um, this was on the, I don’t, we’re leaving the topic of
53:57 discussion.
53:58 And I, I just, I wanted to make the point that I didn’t hear Dr.
54:03 Schiller say that everything was normal, that these kind of
54:05 behaviors are okay.
54:06 That he was speaking, I didn’t hear what he said.
54:08 And it’s all, you know, perception, you know, people hear things
54:11 based on their perception and their point of view.
54:13 But I did not hear him say to us, to our staff, to our teachers,
54:17 to our union members, to our families, that the behavior is okay,
54:21 that there’s nothing going on.
54:22 It’s not okay.
54:23 What he said was, our policies are in line with federal and
54:26 state law right now.
54:27 And the administrative procedures attached to those policies are
54:32 aligned to the policies.
54:34 And the, the, the, the fact that he asked for the professional
54:38 development to happen, that training to happen, shows that he
54:43 thinks we’re not necessarily doing it with fidelity all the way
54:47 down.
54:48 The people haven’t had the time.
54:49 He said, we haven’t had the time, we haven’t had the resources
54:52 to make sure that everybody has the tools they need to implement
54:55 it with fidelity.
54:56 So I’m just, I’m going to clarify that.
54:58 And also I just, because you just threw this out there as far as
55:01 something you’re establishing with Tammy.
55:03 I’m going to remind you, Mr. Chairman, that we need to operate
55:06 in cohesiveness as a board, or at least in awareness.
55:10 I’m very concerned that you might be going around having these
55:13 conversations and establishing new protocols that we have not
55:16 talked about as a board.
55:17 So as we move forward this morning and today, I, you know, I’m
55:20 going to make note of those concerns because I, I, they are,
55:23 they are building for me.
55:24 So thank you, Ms. Campbell.
55:26 I just wanted to say that the piece of paper that we were
55:29 talking about doing is a recommendation by our staff and that it
55:32 was coming forward for discussion today.
55:34 So there is nothing that is being done outside of the protocol
55:36 of the school board.
55:37 The second thing that I would like to bring up is the simple
55:41 fact that there is no question that our teachers need to have
55:44 professional development.
55:46 What I’m saying is, is that when issues are happening, when
55:50 students are hitting teachers, when students are hitting other
55:53 students, that there is a protocol and procedures that was
55:57 different than it was three, four years ago.
56:00 That procedure that is in between is where we need to get to
56:04 work.
56:04 And I don’t feel that the processes were done to fidelity.
56:08 And that’s what we need to get to.
56:10 So when I speak to when we’re what’s happening, we have multiple
56:14 situations where students were violent against other students
56:18 and violent against that.
56:20 I believe that.
56:21 All I want to do is make sure that those were done to fidelity.
56:25 And before we come forward to saying that they were, I would
56:28 like to look at that.
56:29 That’s it.
56:30 That’s all we said.
56:31 I think the recommendation down here for us to do the RSM audit,
56:33 which we had actually mentioned, if you recall, last time, it’s
56:38 been probably three years ago.
56:40 The board suggested when we had our joint committee meeting with
56:44 the audit committee, what would it look like to do a discipline
56:48 audit?
56:49 You remember that?
56:50 Yep.
56:51 I was the one that brought it forward.
56:52 And that.
56:53 So here we are.
56:54 This would be a good opportunity.
56:55 So we’re not going by just stories and impressions.
56:58 We’re going, you know, RSM does a great job.
57:00 They are our internal auditor.
57:01 They are one of the entities that answer directly to us as a
57:03 board.
57:04 And that is a great, so we’re, so we are getting the details and
57:07 finding where the breakdown is.
57:09 Because other than that, it’s five people up here taking a guess
57:12 of where we think the breakdown is.
57:14 And I, you know, I mentioned on December 8th, I, I still believe
57:17 it.
57:17 There is a multi-layered, uh, problem.
57:20 And we need to, you know, I, before we start just piecemealing
57:24 what we think as a board we need to do, I think we need to allow
57:27 RSM to do the audit.
57:28 We need to allow whatever, we need to decide what we want to
57:30 look, what we want the committees to look like.
57:32 They’re going to come back to us.
57:33 So we’re not making these decisions in the blind based on what,
57:37 certain conversations with either the sheriff or the unions,
57:40 whatever.
57:40 I’m not comfortable making those kind of decisions only hearing
57:43 it’s part of the story.
57:44 And so I, I hate to do this, but I would really like to slow us
57:49 down a little bit to make sure we have all the information
57:52 before we move forward.
57:54 Let’s do this, let’s do this, let’s do that.
57:56 Let’s take a breath.
57:59 And give the process a chance to work.
58:02 Thank you, Ms. Campbell.
58:03 I just want to make sure that everybody understands that I was
58:05 the one that brought forward the discipline to be audited back,
58:08 um, three years ago.
58:09 I was the one that brought forward in August of this year that
58:11 we had a problem on our buses that asked district staff to do it.
58:14 I was also the one that called and had RSM come in to begin the
58:17 possibilities of having this audit at the beginning last month.
58:21 So 100% you want to have the data and that’s exactly what I’m
58:25 saying.
58:26 But until we look at all of those data, when we have all three
58:29 of our union groups along with others saying that there’s
58:32 Houston, there’s a problem.
58:33 I think it’s disingenuous to come out and say, well, everything’s
58:35 been done to fidelity.
58:36 Um, it might be a little bit of your, um, you know, uh,
58:39 professional development and let’s go ahead and get changed.
58:42 That’s all.
58:43 So let’s get down to the bottom of it.
58:44 Let’s figure it out.
58:45 We’re both saying the same thing.
58:46 The issue is, is that I’m trying to say that if the unions are
58:49 all saying something and the associations are saying one thing,
58:52 let’s not just tell them that it’s not being done.
58:54 Let’s look at it past and look forward for future procedures.
58:57 So, um, now what I would like to do if you’re okay is to move
59:01 forward on the cell phones and give Ms. Jenkins an opportunity
59:06 to speak to any of the cell phone issues that they may want to
59:10 give direction to staff.
59:11 Just so everybody understands the proper process is for us to
59:13 give recommendations to staff.
59:15 Then at the next board meeting, they’ll bring back the staff, um,
59:19 recommendations to us.
59:20 Um, so Ms. Jenkins.
59:22 I have an objection that you’re asking us for what you didn’t
59:25 tell us.
59:26 There was nowhere in any of the preparation for this meeting
59:29 that we should come be proficient.
59:31 Come prepared to talk about the cell phone policy.
59:33 I have a problem with that as, as a, as a board member, as a one
59:37 of five on this board, no one said anywhere.
59:40 And let me slow myself down.
59:41 We were not informed in any way that we were going to have a
59:44 conversation today about cell phone policy.
59:46 So I’m not prepared.
59:47 And I would request Mr. Chair that we save that conversation for
59:50 later.
59:51 When I can be prepared and Ms. Jenkins can be prepared and Mr.
59:54 Trent can be prepared and Ms. Wright can be prepared.
59:58 Thank you, Ms. Campbell.
1:00:00 Um, did you receive the email on Friday, January 2nd that said
1:00:03 update on implementation of board policy, zero tolerance cell
1:00:06 phones and discipline committee?
1:00:07 Did you receive where it says any board member discussion on
1:00:09 discipline items?
1:00:10 Did you receive anything observed since direct staff direction
1:00:13 to be addressed positive or negative?
1:00:15 Did you receive this, um, direction?
1:00:17 I did on January the 20th.
1:00:19 Yes.
1:00:20 That did not tell me.
1:00:21 I can borrow yours for just a second because I don’t have mine
1:00:24 in front of me.
1:00:25 Update.
1:00:26 After you requested.
1:00:27 I will tell you, I, yeah, yeah, it was sent.
1:00:29 Thank you.
1:00:30 After I requested the information to come out.
1:00:32 But I, I, that doesn’t tell me what’s going to happen.
1:00:35 Um, I assumed, and maybe I assumed incorrectly, and I’ll put
1:00:39 that on me, that that update meant that staff was going to let
1:00:43 us know what has been done.
1:00:44 In the intervening time.
1:00:47 Thank you, Ms. Campbell.
1:00:48 Um, also the, the board gave direction on December 8th to
1:00:52 enforce the zero tolerance and the cell phone policy, which I
1:00:56 think if we look at both policies, we’re going to find that they’re
1:01:01 pretty close to being where we feel they should be.
1:01:03 The only issue that we’ve had is that we feel along with many of
1:01:07 the other associations and groups that they have not been, and
1:01:10 we just need a plan moving forward.
1:01:12 So today I wanted to make sure that if anybody wanted to give
1:01:16 the opportunity to speak to the cell phone policy and some of
1:01:20 those things, which is under provide any additional, anything
1:01:24 observed since staff direction to be addressed, positive,
1:01:26 negative.
1:01:27 These are all items that were sent out earlier that I feel like
1:01:30 we have the ability to speak to.
1:01:32 So with that, does anybody wish to speak to the cell phone
1:01:35 policy to make any recommendations on it?
1:01:38 Yeah, I need to, I need to, I need to.
1:01:41 Uh, number one, there are assumptions that, uh, because you
1:01:47 disagree with the rhetoric and conversation for the past few
1:01:52 months that you think that behaviors don’t exist in the
1:01:54 classroom.
1:01:55 May I remind everyone, I worked for BPS for six years before
1:01:59 being on the board.
1:02:00 My husband has been a teacher for 13 years.
1:02:02 I am in and out of my schools regularly.
1:02:04 I am well aware we have behaviors in the classroom.
1:02:07 We service 70,000 children.
1:02:09 Children have behaviors.
1:02:11 No one’s saying they don’t exist.
1:02:12 No one is diminishing that.
1:02:14 No one is diminishing the concerns of our teachers.
1:02:16 My own husband has the same exact concerns.
1:02:19 They are real.
1:02:21 I hear you.
1:02:22 They reach out to me too.
1:02:24 We are the 10th largest county in the state.
1:02:27 We are the 10th largest number of referrals in the state.
1:02:30 We are proportionate.
1:02:32 My argument is that we are not unique.
1:02:34 We are not an anomaly like has been, been presented to the
1:02:37 community and to the world at large.
1:02:43 My issue is that today we’re saying, oh, this is what we’ve been
1:02:47 talking about the whole entire time.
1:02:48 This uncovered that we’re not implementing.
1:02:51 No.
1:02:52 The entire time we’ve been talking about this rhetoric that our
1:02:54 policies are bad, that we got to redo our policies or redraft
1:02:58 brand new policies.
1:02:59 We weren’t talking about implementation.
1:03:01 The entire time we were talking about increasing discipline in
1:03:05 our classrooms, not talking about the fact that we actually
1:03:08 already over discipline our students.
1:03:10 And maybe we can come at it from a different approach like
1:03:12 teacher training and classroom management.
1:03:14 Like we’re having that conversation today.
1:03:16 We need to be focusing on implementing practices to benefit our
1:03:20 teachers and our students, not the circus that we’ve been a part
1:03:23 of.
1:03:23 And Mr. Susan, you used a really, really, really important word
1:03:26 today.
1:03:26 Disingenuous.
1:03:27 This entire conversation is disingenuous.
1:03:30 We have administrators too, Mr. Susan, that speak with us.
1:03:33 And quite frankly, the ones I speak with believe the whole
1:03:37 rhetoric we’ve been having for the past two months was disingenuous
1:03:41 because it gave this perception that they weren’t doing their
1:03:45 jobs.
1:03:46 That’s disingenuous.
1:03:48 To say that we need this conversation has led us to the point
1:03:51 where we need to do this audit so we can reveal if something’s
1:03:54 working.
1:03:55 And when you find out it’s working, you’ll say, yeah, you know
1:03:57 what?
1:03:57 Great.
1:03:58 It’s working.
1:03:59 Cool.
1:04:00 But I’m going to hold you to the fact that this entire time you’ve
1:04:03 done the opposite.
1:04:04 Without having an audit in place, you’ve gone around the
1:04:06 community for two months saying things aren’t working, that we
1:04:09 aren’t reporting things to the state.
1:04:11 And that is just as dangerous as saying it’s working without
1:04:15 knowing if it is.
1:04:16 So you need to commit to that promise as well because it’s
1:04:19 dangerous.
1:04:20 It impacts our school system.
1:04:23 And quite frankly, let’s be open and honest.
1:04:26 Your video in front of the jail prompted the Office of Safe
1:04:30 Schools to come to Brevard County.
1:04:32 And I haven’t heard a report from anyone saying that we have
1:04:35 done anything wrong yet.
1:04:36 I feel like if they saw something, they would have said it by
1:04:39 now.
1:04:39 But unfortunately, the people who were involved no longer work
1:04:41 for our district.
1:04:42 So I can’t ask them.
1:04:44 And Mr. Schiller, I don’t know if you were briefed on that.
1:04:46 And if you have anything to add to that conversation, if the
1:04:48 Office of Safe Schools did come to you and talk about that visit.
1:04:52 And if they had any serious, genuine concerns from that initial
1:04:56 visit.
1:04:56 Thank you.
1:04:57 Thank you, Ms. Jenkins.
1:04:58 We are on cell phones.
1:04:59 So that was a great conversation about cell phones.
1:05:01 Ms. Campbell, would you like to speak?
1:05:03 Mr. Susan.
1:05:04 No.
1:05:05 Ms. Jenkins.
1:05:06 Mr. Susan, the public deserves to hear.
1:05:07 Ms. Campbell, please.
1:05:09 The public deserves to hear the response to the Office of Safe
1:05:11 Schools.
1:05:11 Ms. Campbell, please.
1:05:12 Your opportunity.
1:05:13 We will send to the Office of Safe Schools.
1:05:14 Mr. Susan.
1:05:15 The public deserves to hear the results and the visit from the
1:05:17 Office of Safe Schools.
1:05:20 Ms. Jenkins.
1:05:21 Ms. Jenkins, please.
1:05:22 Thank you.
1:05:23 We will have time to do that.
1:05:24 Ms. Campbell, you have the opportunity to speak on the cell
1:05:25 phone.
1:05:25 I would like staff to bring recommendations to us.
1:05:28 Okay.
1:05:29 And it usually comes in the form of a work session.
1:05:33 So at that time, I’ll have comments on, and obviously we need
1:05:37 some updating.
1:05:39 It has been updated since 2017.
1:05:40 I think even just some of the terminology needs to be updated.
1:05:44 Just very briefly looking through what Ms. Jenkins just shared
1:05:48 with us of the letter.
1:05:50 I don’t, I don’t, I’m not sure if we have it here, but somewhere
1:05:54 we have in our policy,
1:05:55 maybe in the Student Code of Conduct, and I don’t know if I’m,
1:06:01 where we have something
1:06:03 about students videotaping incidents.
1:06:08 We have, we have that somewhere.
1:06:11 Cyber bullying.
1:06:12 I think that we included in that.
1:06:14 I have a vague, I’m getting a slight head nod back there.
1:06:17 But it’s in there somewhere.
1:06:19 But if we want to go ahead and put it here, I don’t have a
1:06:22 problem with that.
1:06:23 But, you know, as far as looking for specific, I don’t have
1:06:27 specific line items because I’m
1:06:28 a fast reader, but I’m not that fast.
1:06:30 Thank you, Ms. Campbell.
1:06:31 Mr. Trent.
1:06:33 All right.
1:06:36 So, that’s probably the last school board member to actually
1:06:41 have to deal with students
1:06:43 with cell phones.
1:06:44 I mean, we have a cell phone policy that’s in place.
1:06:48 And those continuing to read it, I’m sure, I’m sure most
1:06:53 students and parents who signed
1:06:55 this and teachers who okayed this haven’t read it in a while.
1:07:01 I mean, there’s a lot of good stuff here.
1:07:02 I mean, I don’t know how we can add more to a cell phone policy.
1:07:06 I’ve had students, the latest student stopped me in Publix and
1:07:12 thanked me, which I didn’t
1:07:13 even do anything.
1:07:14 I said, you signed it, your parents signed it, and your teacher,
1:07:17 I’m sure, went over it.
1:07:18 But he was concerned about the nuisance of cell phones in his
1:07:24 classes.
1:07:25 And said, great.
1:07:26 Because what they heard was, you know, no more cell phones.
1:07:30 And that’s not the issue.
1:07:31 I just said, no, you know, it’s common sense.
1:07:35 You know, when the teacher’s talking, it should be out.
1:07:37 And they’re like, now what are you going to do with the teachers
1:07:39 that don’t enforce that?
1:07:41 We go back to the implementation where that’s happening
1:07:46 throughout our schools.
1:07:48 And it also happens with discipline.
1:07:50 Let’s just do cell phones.
1:07:51 That’s the easy one.
1:07:52 Where they have just lost control of their classroom and just
1:07:55 said, I’ll see you next year.
1:07:56 And let the kid sit there and be on his phone for the entire
1:08:00 time.
1:08:00 But, I mean, it’s a privilege.
1:08:02 Cell phones are a privilege.
1:08:03 It says it multiple times in our policy.
1:08:06 And not only can we ask students to put away your phone, we can
1:08:10 ask them to power them off.
1:08:12 We can ask them to, you know, put them away so we can visually
1:08:16 see as a teacher that it’s not being used.
1:08:19 Not between your legs.
1:08:20 So you can look at texts, obviously always coming from your mom.
1:08:24 But this is an issue that has to be addressed.
1:08:29 It used to be back in the old days, the earbuds.
1:08:31 You know, I thought we lost education when we allowed those.
1:08:34 But then the cell phones came through.
1:08:36 So just the implementation from day one that cell phones deter
1:08:44 educational minutes and that we’ve got to get that back.
1:08:48 But, you know, now that I’ve got the mic, we’ve got to allow our
1:08:52 classroom teachers this time for us to tell them, it’s not that
1:08:58 you need the PD.
1:08:59 It’s always nice to have the PD.
1:09:01 We still have teachers that just need refresher.
1:09:03 Like, oh, yeah, I used to do that five years ago.
1:09:05 I should probably do that.
1:09:06 But take control of your classrooms.
1:09:09 You know what to do.
1:09:10 We have the best teachers in the country.
1:09:13 I’m going to continue to say that.
1:09:14 But for whatever reason, some of us have just given up on those
1:09:19 little fringe things in our classrooms that make it so wonderful
1:09:23 to be there.
1:09:24 Like having control of your classroom.
1:09:27 Take that back.
1:09:28 So I know most teachers don’t watch these meetings, but I think
1:09:33 I’ve asked you, Mr. Susan, is how do we get it to the classroom
1:09:37 teachers and the deans that what we’ve shined our light on here
1:09:43 is just do what you know what’s right to do.
1:09:46 I’ve been told by teachers they could write 20 referrals a day
1:09:50 on just referral-worthy behavior.
1:09:53 It’s there.
1:09:54 It’s not all about hitting teachers, all right?
1:09:56 I know that’s happening out there and physical violence is not
1:10:00 acceptable.
1:10:01 But just the little things that keeps us from teaching your sons
1:10:05 and daughters.
1:10:06 And this cell phone policy is one of them.
1:10:09 I mean, we have to just get back to saying, teachers, do what
1:10:14 you know you need to do in deans.
1:10:17 I know it’s tough.
1:10:18 And I don’t know what I’m getting here, but I know it’s tough.
1:10:20 I know in my last school we had one dean to cover a thousand
1:10:23 students with no help.
1:10:25 So these little behaviors sometimes was even asked, do you
1:10:29 really have to write a referral on that?
1:10:31 So then it just becomes that culture where I don’t care what
1:10:35 audit you do, those referrals that are not being written and the
1:10:39 calls that are not being going home, those aren’t auditable.
1:10:41 So I’m going to be still boots on the ground of you can have
1:10:46 anything written, we have to get it out to our teachers, do what
1:10:54 you know needs to be done.
1:10:56 Sir.
1:10:57 Thank you, Ms. Wright.
1:11:00 I’m going to echo what you’re saying to some degree, Jean.
1:11:03 I think that I’m going to use my own story from my own child,
1:11:06 one of my children.
1:11:07 When they came back to school after Christmas break, you know, I
1:11:10 had the stern conversation that I think a lot of parents did on,
1:11:13 don’t embarrass your parent, don’t bring that cell phone out.
1:11:16 And on my children’s cell phone, I have the ability to see when
1:11:19 something’s downloaded, like an app or something.
1:11:21 And so around 10:30 in the morning or so, I get a notification
1:11:24 that an app’s been downloaded on my child’s cell phone.
1:11:26 And so I thought, oh, no, no, no, no, no.
1:11:29 So I had the rough conversation with her.
1:11:30 She gets in the car and I kind of let into her about it a bit.
1:11:33 And she tells me, oh, my teacher told me we had to download this
1:11:36 app for something that they were doing in class.
1:11:38 And so I’m like, oh.
1:11:40 So I think, again, it just boils back down to, can this district
1:11:43 send out something that says, hey, guys, no cell phone during
1:11:46 instruction time?
1:11:47 If there’s something that they need to do on an app, download it
1:11:49 outside of school, because we’re giving a mixed signal.
1:11:52 If we have a teacher that says, hey, download an app, bring out
1:11:54 your cell phone, now you’ve kind of opened that door.
1:11:57 If we could, as a district, just send something out that says,
1:12:00 hey, no cell phones out during instruction time, you have the
1:12:03 ability to remove that cell phone if you see it out.
1:12:05 I think just the reminder will help them if that’s what we’re
1:12:08 talking about.
1:12:09 The cell phone policy as a whole, I’ve read it.
1:12:11 I’ve read it multiple times.
1:12:12 It’s good.
1:12:13 It’s solid if it’s followed.
1:12:15 But I don’t think it’s being followed.
1:12:17 I think we just need to remind everyone that this is the cell
1:12:20 phone policy.
1:12:21 Parents have that conversation with your children.
1:12:23 Do not have those cell phones out.
1:12:24 If they do, your teacher has the ability to take that cell phone
1:12:28 from you.
1:12:28 And me as mom will have to come and get it or dad or guardian.
1:12:32 So I think just the communication.
1:12:34 There’s a breakdown of communication here.
1:12:35 We need to be clear across the board because that’s only one
1:12:39 teacher.
1:12:39 But then other teachers have said, no, it’s been good in my
1:12:41 classroom.
1:12:42 I’m not allowing cell phones.
1:12:43 So if we weren’t able to set the precedents that this is the
1:12:46 policy that will be enforced
1:12:47 to the team moving forward, I think it would clear up a lot of
1:12:50 things.
1:12:51 Thank you, Ms. Campbell.
1:12:52 Just so that I can kind of overview some of it, I think
1:12:56 everybody that had, or I’m sorry, Ms. Wright.
1:12:58 I think everybody here has great input and has said some things
1:13:02 that I think is definitely good for staff to go and come back.
1:13:07 I think one of the things that needs to be reiterated is, is
1:13:10 that currently we have school board inside of our schools.
1:13:13 We have cell phones out in the common areas as the students are
1:13:17 coming in, in between classes.
1:13:19 And this is a security issue.
1:13:21 One of the issues that you have is, is that when you have
1:13:24 students out there and they start texting about a fight, they
1:13:27 start texting about all this other stuff.
1:13:29 That is what our law enforcement has brought forward to say, hey,
1:13:33 this is a severe issue.
1:13:34 Plus it allows them to meet up at certain places to fight or
1:13:37 know that something’s going to happen faster than we can figure
1:13:40 that out.
1:13:41 So one of the things that I wanted to see if the board would
1:13:44 want as part of the cell phone, which is inside the policy, but
1:13:48 like common areas for cell phone has become an issue on security.
1:13:54 The other thing is, is that I wanted to say, we hear from many
1:13:58 of our teachers about the fact that they don’t have control of
1:14:02 their classrooms when it comes to that.
1:14:04 And that does have something to do with classroom management.
1:14:07 And it also has to do with the enforcement.
1:14:09 So, individual achievement is down when a student is not
1:14:12 engaging inside of our schools, inside of a classroom when they’re
1:14:15 on their phone.
1:14:16 Mental health, there’s a lot of studies currently right now that
1:14:20 show that there is a significant increase in mental health
1:14:23 issues.
1:14:24 The more kids spend on social media and the more times they’re
1:14:27 on their cell phones.
1:14:28 The other piece is, is that classroom management’s difficult.
1:14:31 So what I feel, the two main areas that I kind of wanted to
1:14:35 bring up to the board, because I know that we have to give
1:14:37 direction to staff,
1:14:38 would be the common areas that we would say there are no cell
1:14:42 phones in your school.
1:14:44 So when you come on campus, you put your cell phone away until
1:14:47 your teacher says it’s okay to do as part of a program,
1:14:50 or if there’s an incident that you need to be able to
1:14:52 communicate to your families.
1:14:53 And then the other one is, is some sort of direction by staff to
1:14:57 tell the, to tell our principals, listen, we are enacting this,
1:15:01 but also give our teachers the ability.
1:15:05 Because I had many teachers that had communicated to me, hey, I
1:15:06 love the direction.
1:15:07 This is what’s needed.
1:15:08 This is what’s great.
1:15:09 But the problem is, is that if I tell Johnny that he has to give
1:15:12 in his cell phone, that then what happens is, is he says, no,
1:15:15 what do I do?
1:15:15 And there needs to be some sort of a, if you don’t want that
1:15:19 teacher to then get into a conflict, reduce the class and
1:15:22 everything else, there needs to be some sort of procedure.
1:15:23 And quite frankly, that’s not something that we should do.
1:15:26 So what I think that we should do is, is ask staff to bring back
1:15:29 some sort of a plan or communicate to the principals to come up
1:15:33 with a plan for that.
1:15:34 So I would like the reassurance that in the common areas that we
1:15:37 are zeroed out, because it seems to be the number one issue.
1:15:41 So I’ll go with Ms. Jenkins first.
1:15:44 Do you wish to say anything?
1:15:47 On the cell phone.
1:15:49 I just think we are spiraling in circles for no reason.
1:15:54 I speak to teachers too.
1:15:56 And you know what they say to me?
1:15:57 Pick your battles.
1:16:00 This is something that they have to deal with.
1:16:02 If we’re going to, if we’re going to address cell phones, then
1:16:05 you have to modify the behavior.
1:16:07 You can’t just take the cell phone away.
1:16:09 We live in a world in 2023 where adults can’t even put their own
1:16:12 cell phones down.
1:16:13 And you’re expecting a kid who comes out of the uterus with an
1:16:16 iPad in their hand to put their cell phone away for eight hours
1:16:19 a day.
1:16:19 It makes no sense.
1:16:20 If you want to implement some kind of strategy that this
1:16:22 district is going to start teaching kids from pre-K all the way
1:16:27 to 12th grade to educate them on how to use devices and manage
1:16:32 device time and how to access the internet safely.
1:16:36 Again, that’s a proactive approach that’s modifying a behavior
1:16:39 that’s fixing the problem.
1:16:41 But saying you’re going to take the cell phones away is no
1:16:43 different than we already have been doing.
1:16:45 It’s not going to improve the behavior for the teachers.
1:16:48 Thank you, Ms. Jenkins.
1:16:50 I would reiterate that many of our common areas and every school
1:16:54 that I’ve visited over the last couple of weeks has been the
1:16:57 fact that they, the students are able to use those in the common
1:17:00 areas.
1:17:01 I would also like to just say, just to reiterate, that you feel
1:17:06 like enforcing, you’re against enforcing it in the common areas
1:17:10 because you say that they already have them and it’s too
1:17:12 difficult of a thing.
1:17:13 I’m just trying to get board direction, so.
1:17:15 The issue with cell phones for teachers, if that’s the whole
1:17:18 goal of this, is not the common area.
1:17:20 It’s the classroom.
1:17:21 Sure.
1:17:22 So there’s no point of changing that.
1:17:23 That’s my point.
1:17:26 I’m trying to figure out, we are definitely going to move
1:17:29 forward with enforcing inside the classroom.
1:17:31 I would also like direction.
1:17:32 We already have it in there.
1:17:33 But it’s not being enforced and I would like it to be enforced.
1:17:36 And I would like to know how you’re going to do that.
1:17:38 Okay, that’s not up to us.
1:17:39 That’s up to staffs that if we say that we’re going to do that,
1:17:41 then they would, they would reduce it.
1:17:43 So we give staff direction, staff comes back with
1:17:45 recommendations.
1:17:46 That’s what it is.
1:17:47 All right, Ms. Campbell.
1:17:48 You’re bringing up something that’s quite new that I have not,
1:17:52 as far as shutting it down in common areas.
1:17:56 I say new, I will tell you that, you know, having my children
1:18:00 having gone to three different secondary schools, you know, at
1:18:06 the middle school that they all three have attended.
1:18:09 Once you, once that first bell rings, you can have it out until
1:18:12 the first bell rings and then it’s gone until the last bell
1:18:14 rings.
1:18:15 And they better not have it out in between.
1:18:16 And that includes classrooms and hallways.
1:18:17 But that’s a middle school.
1:18:19 My girls who have been at two different high schools, that’s not
1:18:21 the case.
1:18:22 They, you know, not in class, except for in the past when
1:18:24 teachers have asked them to use.
1:18:26 And I will tell you, Ms. Ray, I hear what you’re saying, but I,
1:18:28 in the past, we weren’t one-to-one with technology.
1:18:31 And so frequently for apps like Kahoot and things like that.
1:18:35 Right.
1:18:36 And Mr. Trent probably used some of those as well.
1:18:37 I’m going to speak.
1:18:38 Right, right.
1:18:39 So, but now that we’re one-to-one, I think it’ll be a little bit
1:18:42 easier for teachers to say,
1:18:43 “Nope, we’re not going to use your cell phones.
1:18:45 You can use the device that we provide for you.”
1:18:47 Because those things are available in general on computers and
1:18:51 laptops, too.
1:18:52 I’m not ready to say shutting it down in the common areas today.
1:18:58 I don’t think that I’ve gotten enough feedback.
1:19:01 I think the fact that our parents spoke when they misunderstood
1:19:05 and thought we were saying,
1:19:06 “No cell phones at school.”
1:19:08 And some of them went nuts because they’re like,
1:19:09 “I need to be able to, you know, know if my, some, you know, an
1:19:12 active shooter or something like that.
1:19:14 I need to know that my child can communicate with me.”
1:19:16 Or, you know, I’ll really admit, I get texts from my children
1:19:20 during the lunch break,
1:19:21 “Hey, Mom, can you get me some more of this?” or whatever.
1:19:26 I’m not ready to shut that down for, at least for our high
1:19:30 school students.
1:19:31 So I know I can’t give you that concurrence on that.
1:19:34 Okay, thank you.
1:19:38 Grant?
1:19:40 So, I agree as a teacher.
1:19:43 There are some times.
1:19:44 I mean, pick your battles.
1:19:46 I’m going to use that phrase.
1:19:48 Teachers are concerned about their classroom.
1:19:50 And that is the policy, but we do need to do a better job of
1:19:54 that.
1:19:54 I want to make sure we have something in our policy that
1:20:00 specifically says we cannot, this is not a fun topic on that,
1:20:05 but is the videoing of fights.
1:20:09 If it doesn’t say specifically that that’s prohibited.
1:20:13 I know here in Polk County that, in this one here, it
1:20:16 specifically says that, and it’s great.
1:20:18 I think we need to put something like that in there.
1:20:21 But back to the common area.
1:20:23 Boy, that’s going to be a tough one.
1:20:27 If we can make sure that that is not happening in our elementary
1:20:31 schools, in our junior highs.
1:20:33 We can do that.
1:20:34 That’d be great.
1:20:35 Maybe they’ve earned their right a little bit to be responsible
1:20:38 at the high school level.
1:20:40 You know, our seven through 12 level.
1:20:42 But at the same time, I think if we start little by absolutely
1:20:49 100% taking control of those classrooms.
1:20:52 As a former classroom teacher, if you can guarantee me that all
1:20:56 25 of my kids are not bringing out their cell phones during
1:21:00 class, unless I ask them to do.
1:21:02 So I would be happy with that, if we could do that.
1:21:06 Ms. Wright, when you were talking about no cell phones
1:21:11 whatsoever, I was going to just say, I couldn’t even do that as
1:21:15 a math teacher.
1:21:16 Because, you know, graphing calculators are, what, about $125
1:21:20 now?
1:21:20 And they’ve got a wonderful app that gives you a graphing
1:21:22 calculator.
1:21:23 So many times I would say, get your cell phones out, get that
1:21:28 application and use that.
1:21:30 But now that we’re one-on-one, one-to-one on a laptop.
1:21:33 But again, if it’s used for educational purposes, today in
1:21:38 college teachers are taught how to utilize technology in the
1:21:42 classroom.
1:21:43 Because they know the kids have, you know, we’ve maybe not come
1:21:46 out of the uterus with an iPad.
1:21:48 But maybe an Android.
1:21:50 But it’s, it is useful to use that technology.
1:21:58 But it’s, it’s again, giving, treating those teachers as
1:22:01 professionals to know when those kids can have cell phones out
1:22:05 and when not to.
1:22:06 And letting these children, and I’ll continue to say children,
1:22:10 that that is a privilege.
1:22:12 And when we say it’s off, it’s off.
1:22:14 And if I deem that I need to take it from you, we absolutely 100%
1:22:18 have the ability to do that.
1:22:19 And there’s got to be some specific consequences that if you
1:22:23 refuse to do that, it’s gone and that privilege is taken.
1:22:27 But to take it for high school age kids away from lunchtime, it’s
1:22:33 a, it’s a, it’s a tough one.
1:22:36 And I’m, I’m probably not prepared to say all gone today on that.
1:22:40 If we can do that as it’s a graduated responsibility or a
1:22:43 privilege, that would be great.
1:22:45 I did ask my, my daughter who’s in fifth grade.
1:22:47 I’m like, are those cell phones out all the time?
1:22:49 And she actually said, no, not, not in my school.
1:22:51 So if we can be assured that that’s the recommendation from this
1:22:56 board and from administration here that that is not to be seen.
1:23:02 Cause that’s a bad habit to start when you get those, those kids
1:23:05 should be communicating with each other and developing a
1:23:07 relationship.
1:23:08 And, um, yeah, and we don’t want to see that at the elementary
1:23:12 and junior high.
1:23:15 Okay.
1:23:16 Hang on, Dr. Schiller.
1:23:17 Just give me a second.
1:23:18 I’ll come back to you after, after Ms. Wright.
1:23:20 Um, real quick question.
1:23:21 Um, I, I concur with you on the, um, issue of, uh, that you had
1:23:27 brought up is that maybe not the common areas, right?
1:23:30 But you had said in the event that they’re being used to post to
1:23:33 social media, being used to facilitate fighting and all that
1:23:36 stuff,
1:23:36 which was a recommendation that we had coming forward.
1:23:38 Um, I would support that, um, moving forward for direction to
1:23:42 staff to kind of put inside there.
1:23:44 Um, and I think that that’s a good one, but, um, I, I think Ms.
1:23:48 Wright, you had an opportunity to speak.
1:23:49 And if you can give direction on that addition, that would help
1:23:52 too, that Mr. Trent just brought up.
1:23:54 So if I’m hearing you correctly, I just want to make sure I’m
1:23:56 following, but you are recommending for staff to come back to us
1:24:00 with a suggestion on how we’re going to modify this.
1:24:02 And, and I’m in favor of doing that a hundred percent.
1:24:04 I’m old school.
1:24:05 So to me, I mean, if a kid picks up their cell phone and they
1:24:08 have notifications on every different app, now we’re going to
1:24:10 expect our teachers to monitor that the kid’s actually
1:24:12 adequately using the cell phone for a reason that they’ve said.
1:24:15 If we have one-to-one technology, I, my feelings are if I have
1:24:18 my way, not at all during instructional time.
1:24:21 Um, I understand the common areas.
1:24:23 I understand lunch being one of those areas.
1:24:25 Uh, do I love it?
1:24:26 No, I mean, I’d prefer the kids talk to each other and interact
1:24:28 with each other.
1:24:29 But if there has to be a compromise there, that would be my
1:24:32 recommendation.
1:24:33 Um, but I’m a hundred percent in favor of asking staff to come
1:24:35 back with something that they would revise to, to move forward
1:24:39 on communicating out to all of our schools.
1:24:41 Hey, this is the new policy moving forward, or this is what we’re
1:24:44 going to be changing.
1:24:45 Um, and I, and I did kind of just want to remind that there’s
1:24:48 really not anything that we, especially if we don’t go forward
1:24:52 with, um, with making it, you know what I mean?
1:24:55 The common areas, there is nothing that we are changing right
1:24:58 now.
1:24:58 Right.
1:24:59 That they cannot send out a directive right now.
1:25:02 Hey, we need to work on how we’re going to implement a zero
1:25:05 tolerance on cell phones, right?
1:25:07 I mean, like that is, um, how that, to effectively enforce that
1:25:11 policy.
1:25:12 So, um, what I’m hearing you guys say is, is that common areas
1:25:15 are kind of a sticky situation, right?
1:25:17 Um, so what I would say is, is that I think we’ve given board
1:25:20 direction that, hey, we need some sort of, uh, enforcement of
1:25:23 the current policy and giving the opportunity for staff to
1:25:26 figure that out.
1:25:27 B, we needed some sort of, um, professional development training,
1:25:30 which I agree with, on how to deal with the classroom management
1:25:33 of the cell phones possibly and stuff like that.
1:25:35 And then we’re waiting for staff to come back with any kind of
1:25:37 recommendations that they’d want to change.
1:25:39 So there’s two sides to this one.
1:25:41 Let’s send out some messages that we are going to enforce the
1:25:43 current policy and give the teachers the ability to do so.
1:25:46 And then to have staff bring back under Dr. Schiller’s direction,
1:25:51 a, um, policy changes and stuff like that.
1:25:53 Does that make sense?
1:25:54 I think we already did that first one as a parent.
1:25:56 I know I got a letter about that right before the break to talk
1:25:59 to my children about that before we went.
1:26:01 We did get that directive and it, can I talk?
1:26:05 Yeah.
1:26:06 Sometimes I skip over the first sentence of policies, but you
1:26:10 know, our student parent cell phone, wireless communication
1:26:14 device contract that they signed, the very first one, uh, and it
1:26:19 says protecting student staff and maintaining integrity and the
1:26:22 learning environment is taught as a top priority.
1:26:24 One use of cell phones, except those approved by teacher or
1:26:28 administrator is prohibited and must either be powered off
1:26:32 completely or placed on vibrate and silent mode and stored out
1:26:35 of sight.
1:26:36 That would also mean any of those common areas.
1:26:39 If number two here, when authorized and approved by the site
1:26:42 principal, uh, so they can set that policy in their own, in
1:26:45 their own environment.
1:26:47 So if they say no, it’s, it’s off completely out of sight, you
1:26:50 can have it on vibrate in case mom needs to text you about the
1:26:53 dentist appointment.
1:26:55 Uh, but it, it looks like it is within the power of that
1:26:59 building principle to set that culture, however they want that.
1:27:05 So that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s here.
1:27:07 That’s in a contract that the parent and the student has already
1:27:09 signed.
1:27:10 So how do we work with that or do we just talk about
1:27:13 implementing that?
1:27:14 Yeah.
1:27:15 And to be honest with you, one of the issues we have is we have
1:27:18 this policy that we found for one reason or another was not
1:27:21 being totally enforced, right?
1:27:23 So we just need to get back to that policy.
1:27:25 And my concern was, is the common areas and like, you know, like
1:27:29 you have, you have other things like, um, you have all kinds of
1:27:32 meetings that you have where the students come in for various
1:27:35 effect activities inside the gym and all that other stuff, right?
1:27:37 We, we would be behoove us to not be a part of trying to micromanage
1:27:41 the schools.
1:27:42 They all know what’s best for their schools.
1:27:44 But the one thing that we need to do as a board is correct is to
1:27:48 say we are, we want this thing enforced inside the classrooms
1:27:51 and we want our teachers and staff on both that and buses to
1:27:55 know that if they send a referral or if they send something that
1:27:57 a student was not working, what is the next plan so that that is
1:28:00 effectively enforced?
1:28:01 I think that’s what we’re trying to do today.
1:28:03 And that’s what I appreciate.
1:28:05 If we can just get a thumbs up on that.
1:28:07 If that’s good.
1:28:08 Good.
1:28:10 I’m confused as well.
1:28:11 Just don’t want to make sure.
1:28:12 Sure.
1:28:13 Because I’m not going to stick my thumb up.
1:28:14 I don’t want to stick my thumb up for her.
1:28:15 Because it sounds like you want to say send a message, but we’ve
1:28:19 sent it.
1:28:20 Do we, are you, are we sending another message?
1:28:21 Are we saying it again?
1:28:22 So the message Ms. Campbell effectively we still have many
1:28:26 teachers that feel like it was not properly given to them for
1:28:30 enforcement.
1:28:31 So they’re sitting there in their classroom with kids that are
1:28:34 twice their size and they’re getting ready to start saying you
1:28:36 effectively can’t have your cell phone out.
1:28:39 They effectively feel like they cannot enforce that policy and
1:28:42 that there’s going to be something that happens.
1:28:44 And as a teacher who knows about classroom discipline, if you
1:28:47 try to say something and you’re not effectively able to move
1:28:50 that out, then what ends up happening is, is that the students
1:28:54 will then figure a way to come back.
1:28:55 You’ve lost control of the classroom.
1:28:56 So what I would say is, is all we would like to do is work with
1:29:00 each one of the principals so they understand that the fidelity
1:29:04 of enforcing this is what the board wants moving forward.
1:29:08 Because I’ll tell you right now, I have many teachers, many bus
1:29:12 drivers that don’t feel like they are being supported in that
1:29:15 realm.
1:29:16 And although an email went out to the staff, there was no email
1:29:19 that went out directly to the principals saying, hey, you need
1:29:22 to make sure that this is enforced and that there’s proper
1:29:24 processes.
1:29:25 That’s it.
1:29:26 That’s all it is.
1:29:27 And it’s a, it’s just something that we can do.
1:29:28 So I am asking for staff to be able to send out saying we’re
1:29:31 going to effectively enforce this.
1:29:33 If you don’t have, you know what I mean, if the teachers have
1:29:35 any questions, have some sort of process in place that is
1:29:37 effectively for each one of the schools and we can check it off.
1:29:41 And if anybody wants to change one, we bring some sort of a
1:29:44 policy change back to work in the future.
1:29:46 Just like you said.
1:29:47 That’s it.
1:29:48 That’s what I was getting board direction on.
1:29:51 Hang on.
1:29:53 Ms. Campbell’s just got the floor right now.
1:29:54 Just hang on.
1:29:55 Okay.
1:29:56 All right.
1:29:57 Ms. Jenkins.
1:29:58 I’m with Ms. Campbell on this.
1:29:59 We already effectively communicated this effectively in email to
1:30:03 parents and staff.
1:30:04 I think that someone’s just looking to come out of here with a
1:30:08 talking point that they did something today.
1:30:10 I think asking staff to come back with how we’re going to
1:30:14 implement it is a very odd, open, broad question and request
1:30:19 because that’s what they do in general.
1:30:21 That’s the whole point of the policy and the administrative
1:30:24 procedure in general.
1:30:25 It’s assuming that they’re not doing it already.
1:30:28 It doesn’t make any sense.
1:30:30 I don’t get the concept behind that.
1:30:33 And just to reiterate, it’s already within our wireless
1:30:38 communication policy that students cannot video record or audio
1:30:43 record while on campus and off campus if they’re at a school
1:30:46 event.
1:30:47 So the request from Mr. Ivy was more increasing the discipline
1:30:52 if someone was to do that and put it on social media.
1:30:56 If we one day go back to that request and have that conversation,
1:30:58 I’m okay with having that conversation.
1:31:00 I’m not okay with what was proposed and how it was proposed
1:31:03 because there’s a lot of variables there, right?
1:31:06 We’ve got kids that are recording incidences that actually
1:31:10 benefit our safety of our students because we get to see what
1:31:13 happened and it helps us.
1:31:15 But, of course, if you’re using it to harass or intimidate or to
1:31:18 bully a student, that’s already something that we don’t tolerate.
1:31:22 So maybe we can reiterate that part, right?
1:31:25 Reiterate if you do record something of a student, this might
1:31:29 happen to you.
1:31:30 This is the consequence.
1:31:31 Don’t put it on social media.
1:31:32 So we can re-educate our students.
1:31:35 It’s not our staff that needs to be re-educated.
1:31:38 And so at this point, no, I don’t want to ask my staff to come
1:31:43 back and tell me how they’re going to implement the policy that
1:31:45 they already believe they’re implementing to the best of their
1:31:48 ability and with the utmost fidelity.
1:31:50 So just to be aware, Ms. Jenkins, the conversation was wrapped
1:31:54 around just saying that we’re going to enforce this and telling
1:31:58 them to figure out a way to do that locally at their school
1:32:00 district.
1:32:01 I do not want to receive a report of how they’re going to
1:32:04 effectively do this.
1:32:05 That would be us getting down into the weeds.
1:32:08 What we just need to do is say that we need this thing enforced
1:32:10 and that we need to find out a way to make sure that every
1:32:13 teacher doesn’t feel like they can’t enforce it.
1:32:15 That’s it.
1:32:16 Right.
1:32:17 Mr. Susan, respectfully, a policy exists to be enforced,
1:32:22 naturally.
1:32:23 We don’t need to say this policy needs to be enforced.
1:32:25 It’s in policy.
1:32:26 It should be enforced, always.
1:32:28 And we already reiterated it because we requested that prior to
1:32:33 Christmas or winter break.
1:32:35 And so, again, if you’re asking our staff to come back to us,
1:32:39 you are asking them to bring us something new.
1:32:42 And so, no, I’m not comfortable with that because it doesn’t
1:32:44 make any sense.
1:32:45 I don’t believe anyone in the back of the room has any idea what
1:32:49 they would have to come back here with.
1:32:51 There’s no direction for them and they’re going to be scrambling
1:32:54 to come up with some innovative ingenuity to talk about cell
1:32:57 phones in the classroom that already exists in this very, very
1:33:01 detailed policy.
1:33:04 Mr. Jenkins, I didn’t ask for staff to have any kind of report
1:33:07 back or anything like that.
1:33:09 I said that each school can figure out how to make sure that
1:33:12 each one of these is being enforced and that the teachers have
1:33:16 understand it to fidelity of how that if they go to enforce it,
1:33:19 what’s about to happen.
1:33:20 I think that that is where the crux is.
1:33:23 And I would be honest with you, that if we sent out a survey
1:33:25 that said, hey, do you feel like you can effectively enforce
1:33:29 your cell phone policy right now, that we would find out that
1:33:32 the majority of our teachers feel like they can.
1:33:34 And they need to go to the administrators and they need to
1:33:36 handle it that way.
1:33:37 I just need to be completely honest because I’m going to say
1:33:41 again, we sent out the letter.
1:33:43 We made the news if there is someone who works for Brevard
1:33:46 public schools that doesn’t know that this board has said, you
1:33:49 know what, we want to crack down on cell phone use.
1:33:52 We want to enforce the policy that we already have in place.
1:33:54 I don’t know where they’ve been.
1:33:56 So I, I just, just to spin our wheels to do something.
1:34:00 I would like for us as a board to get back to the work of this
1:34:02 board.
1:34:03 We’ve been asked, do we want to make policy changes?
1:34:05 We’ve said, okay, here’s some things we want to think about.
1:34:08 To be honest, we probably need to update some things because,
1:34:10 you know, I think even with this board,
1:34:12 I think even what we’re, we’ve been saying today is not
1:34:14 necessarily in here.
1:34:15 But can we get back to the work of the board and, and trust Dr.
1:34:18 Schiller and the staff to do their work?
1:34:20 And if they’re, and I would suggest that if there’s a teacher
1:34:22 that feels like in their building, it’s not being enforced and
1:34:26 they’re not being supported,
1:34:27 then they need to work the way up the chain and say, it’s not
1:34:30 being enforced with my administrator.
1:34:32 Sure.
1:34:33 Okay.
1:34:34 So I guess we don’t have direction to send an email to staff
1:34:37 saying, hey, we want to try to figure out to make sure this is
1:34:40 being enforced.
1:34:41 Is that true?
1:34:42 I would have to check the minutes.
1:34:45 No, it’s okay.
1:34:46 I just –
1:34:47 No, what I, sir, what I see here, what I’ve written down is that
1:34:52 you want, for example, the staff through me to take a look at
1:34:59 the policy 5136 wireless communication devices dated 2017.
1:35:07 Mm-hmm.
1:35:08 Do a scan of other districts to see to what extent this is, is
1:35:13 consistent with or where there are inconsistencies with the law
1:35:18 or prevailing practice.
1:35:20 I’ve done a quick one of that letter that was just sent here.
1:35:23 It basically is the same thing as Polk County with one exception.
1:35:27 That one is newer and speaks to filming fights and whatever.
1:35:33 Take away the discipline recommendation.
1:35:36 So for you to want to see the research that we do and any
1:35:39 recommendations that we may have to bring back to you about any
1:35:43 clarifications or changes to this policy, and then you as a
1:35:47 board would determine the policy.
1:35:49 And we could do that, I hope, by February, what is it, 7th, the
1:35:53 next work session.
1:35:55 It’s not going to be that long or hard.
1:35:57 That’s what I understand, number one, if that’s what the
1:36:00 direction of the board is.
1:36:01 Number two, I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with that.
1:36:05 I need clarification.
1:36:06 That’s one.
1:36:07 If that’s what the board is saying, then I will be happy to do
1:36:10 that.
1:36:10 Number two, we’ll bring back the recommendations of any changes
1:36:14 and administrative regs that we would recommend if that is the
1:36:17 direction of the board, because I understand it.
1:36:21 Number three, where I need a little clarification, communicate
1:36:25 with principals the fidelity of what the board wants.
1:36:29 My question that’s unresolved is what does the board want until
1:36:33 it changes this policy?
1:36:35 And number two, to enforce it.
1:36:37 What is it?
1:36:38 If I take this current one, then I will basically, staff and I,
1:36:42 will go and communicate with the principals and the teachers
1:36:45 that what is there is the current policy until such time in
1:36:49 regulation that this board changes it.
1:36:51 And therefore, the allowance of the cell phones as defined here
1:36:57 in the policy, and as well as that each principal, I think it
1:37:04 says here, in terms of what the principal is,
1:37:07 the principal, when authorized and approved by the site
1:37:10 principal or site leadership team.
1:37:12 Students may use WCDs before, after school, during lunch break,
1:37:17 in between.
1:37:18 That’s where your variance is going to be, sir, members of the
1:37:21 board, because that’s what your policy says.
1:37:24 It’s not lockstep.
1:37:25 It’s that each principal may.
1:37:27 If that wants to be a policy change by the board, then that is
1:37:31 what, after you make the policy, we will communicate.
1:37:36 But up to this point, this is what we operate from.
1:37:40 Is that what you would like for us to communicate, to reinforce
1:37:43 this is what’s on until such time you may wish to make different
1:37:46 changes?
1:37:47 Everything that you said, Dr. Schiller, is correct.
1:37:49 But I will say that we did not have board consensus to move
1:37:51 forward with the common areas, right?
1:37:53 So –
1:37:54 No, because it’s not a change of policy.
1:37:55 Right.
1:37:56 It’s a policy.
1:37:57 It’s a change of policy.
1:37:58 Right.
1:37:59 So what we – so we don’t have consensus to do that.
1:38:00 So what you have inside of your hands, everything that you said
1:38:02 is correct, except for the common areas, at the end, is not
1:38:05 something that we want staff to bring back to us as a
1:38:08 recommendation.
1:38:08 We were saying that we would like to completely enforce –
1:38:13 I know, but as long as this one’s in effect –
1:38:15 That’s totally fine.
1:38:16 – it’s left to the principals at each site.
1:38:19 Yes, sir.
1:38:20 When we come back with our recommendation, and whatever it may
1:38:24 be, this is the board’s policy, you will make that determination.
1:38:28 Yep.
1:38:29 So if that’s the understanding and the board gives that
1:38:33 direction, do you have clarity for the minutes, Ms. Aguirre?
1:38:37 Good.
1:38:38 Then we have clarity here, depending upon the direction now of
1:38:42 the board, sir.
1:38:43 Sounds great.
1:38:44 Thank you for that.
1:38:45 So that is our cell phone policy.
1:38:48 One of the things – the reasons that I brought up the zero
1:38:52 tolerance was we received an e-mail most recently from some of
1:38:55 our staff talking about the governor yesterday, and I knew this
1:38:59 was kind of coming, was that he reestablished the entire
1:39:02 reporting guidelines for assessors yesterday,
1:39:04 which is now going to completely kind of change the way we
1:39:08 report those things.
1:39:10 Dr. Sullivan was sending some internal communications and stuff
1:39:13 like that on those changes.
1:39:14 I just wanted – and I made a copy for you guys.
1:39:17 It’s inside of the – inside your board documents.
1:39:21 It would be disingenuous for me to try to ask you guys to even
1:39:24 do anything.
1:39:25 I just wanted to do it as an update.
1:39:28 You’ll see under the tab that says discipline, after the
1:39:31 definitions of student behaviors, it goes into identifying
1:39:37 incident definitions that are now 100% enforceable by assessor,
1:39:42 which are like alcohol, aggravated battery, arson, burglary,
1:39:46 bullying, criminal mischief, disruption on campus, major drug
1:39:50 sales, drug use, fighting, grand theft, harassment, hazing,
1:39:54 homicide, kidnapping, other major incidents,
1:39:57 all of those that are listed inside of there.
1:39:59 Just so that you guys know, Dr. Schiller is going to be reestablishing
1:40:05 how we report those and stuff like that with staff.
1:40:07 Unfortunately, they basically said like it’s now and the problem
1:40:12 is is that we’re now having to figure out a way to do that while
1:40:16 we’re also supposed to be reporting.
1:40:17 So that’s all.
1:40:18 I just wanted you guys to know that.
1:40:19 And that kind of brings light to what we were talking about
1:40:21 before, which is some of the implementation of reporting and
1:40:24 stuff like that.
1:40:25 So are there any questions on what the governor did yesterday
1:40:28 and brought forward?
1:40:29 There’s also an entire presentation inside there also.
1:40:34 So anybody have any questions?
1:40:36 I didn’t.
1:40:37 Yeah, I mean, I’m going to need time to go through all this.
1:40:39 Yeah.
1:40:40 I didn’t get any of this.
1:40:41 No, no, no.
1:40:42 That’s the only reason we’re here.
1:40:43 It’s just to give you guys the heads up.
1:40:44 All right, fair enough.
1:40:45 That staff is going to have to work on that and everything else.
1:40:47 But I just wanted you to know since it broke yesterday.
1:40:49 Yeah.
1:40:50 What the governor is trying to do is identify many of the
1:40:53 discipline issues that may not be reported and stuff like that
1:40:57 and kind of get back.
1:40:58 Everybody okay with that update?
1:41:00 May I have a clarification, sir?
1:41:02 Yes, sir.
1:41:03 What staff has sent to us, to me at least, is an update.
1:41:10 We have the staff here of the most recent assessor changes.
1:41:15 Okay.
1:41:16 And I’m not sure of that.
1:41:18 And that’s a dated, the new SSIR rule and so forth.
1:41:24 And that’s dated, if I recall, I received it on the 7th, on
1:41:29 Monday, the 17th.
1:41:31 And so I don’t know if there’s a new one after that or the one
1:41:34 that staff is already working on.
1:41:36 So maybe it’s one and the same.
1:41:38 I think it’s all the same.
1:41:39 It’s all the same.
1:41:40 It comes from us.
1:41:41 Staff is already working on that.
1:41:42 Yep, yep.
1:41:43 And we have that.
1:41:44 I just wanted the board to be aware that that was going on.
1:41:45 Great.
1:41:46 If anyone needs that, we can send that along, because I think
1:41:50 that was, and I think Dr. Sullivan
1:41:53 was the one who shared that directly through staff members.
1:41:58 And, you know, I think we’re talking about the same thing.
1:42:01 Yep.
1:42:02 If you don’t have it, then we’ll get that to you.
1:42:04 Yeah.
1:42:05 I just wanted, I just wanted our staff to be able to have a copy
1:42:07 of it so that they could
1:42:08 go through it in the fact.
1:42:09 That’s it.
1:42:10 Thank you.
1:42:11 No action needed.
1:42:12 Just wanted to bring it up as a conversation.
1:42:13 All right.
1:42:14 So that takes care of the zero tolerance cell phone.
1:42:17 Dr. Schiller, I’m going to come back to you for your discipline
1:42:22 committee that you had brought
1:42:24 up.
1:42:25 You wanted to speak to that.
1:42:26 That’s the next purpose that you had, establishing a steering
1:42:28 committee.
1:42:29 So Dr. Schiller, at your convenience, if you can.
1:42:31 Dr. Schiller, can I jump in really quick for clarification?
1:42:35 I keep throwing around the term zero tolerance, and it was
1:42:38 listed, and it’s constantly talked
1:42:40 about, and you just use it with cell phones.
1:42:42 That doesn’t mean the same thing with cell phones.
1:42:44 And so when you say that out into the community, the public,
1:42:46 they’re hearing zero tolerance when
1:42:48 it comes to behaviors.
1:42:50 And so I just want to clarify, are we talking about the zero
1:42:54 tolerance policy, or are you using
1:42:57 that as a term as in you’re not tolerating cell phone use?
1:43:01 So Ms. Jenkins, if you look at on the January 20th update, it
1:43:05 says update on implementation
1:43:06 of board policies, zero tolerance, cell phones, and discipline
1:43:09 committee.
1:43:10 All I wanted to do with that zero tolerance area is that it may
1:43:14 be affected based upon the
1:43:15 new recessive reporting guidelines, and just let the board know,
1:43:18 hey, this is what’s moving.
1:43:19 So that’s all I meant.
1:43:20 And then moving forward, the part of the discipline committee,
1:43:22 which is stated on February or Friday,
1:43:25 January 20th, is to allow Dr. Schiller now to go over the
1:43:28 discipline pieces that he has.
1:43:30 Go ahead, Dr. Schiller.
1:43:31 Right.
1:43:32 And I appreciate it.
1:43:33 I just think the public needs to understand.
1:43:35 Please stop shutting my microphone off for me.
1:43:37 I didn’t touch your microphone.
1:43:38 I just think that the public needs to understand.
1:43:40 I didn’t touch your microphone.
1:43:41 Go ahead, Dr. Schiller.
1:43:42 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
1:43:45 Just as a follow-up to that last matter, I would draw your
1:43:49 attention to the most recent
1:43:51 February 2022 policy manual under 5,000, zero tolerance, what it
1:43:57 speaks to at that point.
1:43:59 Okay?
1:44:00 And so that would be part of the review that we would need to
1:44:06 conduct here because it does
1:44:07 not, it’s not omnibus, including the wireless devices.
1:44:14 You see what I’m saying?
1:44:16 So all of these things I would take into consideration for your
1:44:20 policy consideration.
1:44:22 Okay.
1:44:23 Thank you.
1:44:25 Moving along, in trying to now move forward, and this I think
1:44:29 was a fruitful conversation
1:44:31 the board had, there are a number of different external things
1:44:36 that have begun.
1:44:38 I’m trying to pull them all together.
1:44:41 One, you’ve established a number of committees in order to bring
1:44:46 in wide input.
1:44:47 And I think that’s incredibly important and something we need to
1:44:51 sustain and just clarify
1:44:53 so that we are not duplicating efforts from one committee and
1:44:57 other stakeholders.
1:44:58 I’m not sure I have clarity as to what their charge is.
1:45:03 Here’s what I’m trying to do, given the fact that your policy
1:45:08 allows for the superintendent
1:45:10 to create advisory committees, is that one, what our whole
1:45:16 purpose is, I think generically,
1:45:19 help me understand this, but my purpose is this, to initiate the
1:45:23 resolution of all these outstanding
1:45:25 issues, the policies that are related to discipline, not limited
1:45:29 to, but board policies, which you’ve
1:45:32 talked about, administrative regulations or procedures, to bring
1:45:36 them in alliance that you’ve spoken
1:45:39 about, the prevailing statutes, all of our in-house procedures
1:45:44 that are taking place at the school
1:45:46 level, like our handbooks, to make sure everything is in
1:45:50 alignment with what the board policy would
1:45:52 be, and the implementation of school sites, what training and in-servicing
1:45:58 efforts we need
1:45:58 to put into effect to make sure these old things happen, what
1:46:02 our needs are in order to assure the
1:46:04 communications and the training at every level, elementary and
1:46:08 secondary, and for all staff, and
1:46:11 improve the flow of communications and information.
1:46:14 And to bring all this under that umbrella, one, I want to be
1:46:19 able to make sure that we understand
1:46:21 clearly what the roles and responsibilities of the already
1:46:24 established committees and external
1:46:27 entities who are operating within this area, so that we have
1:46:31 constructive input, but not that
1:46:33 people are doing double duty.
1:46:35 We need clarity.
1:46:37 We need that involvement from our stakeholders and staff.
1:46:41 Thirdly, let’s work this problem.
1:46:44 Let’s solve this problem.
1:46:46 Let’s try to get as much as we can done, as soon as we can, but
1:46:50 I would like to wrap this
1:46:52 up for you, for in time for your permanent superintendent, doesn’t
1:46:55 have to face something hanging fire
1:46:57 and start over.
1:46:58 That’s what I’m trying to do.
1:47:01 I was aggressive here, but overly aggressive.
1:47:04 I think if we go forward with some of these other steps, we can
1:47:08 wrap this up this springtime.
1:47:10 I need a little flex time there, but I would like to, if we
1:47:14 agree, what our goal is, let’s
1:47:15 do it by May, so that it’s wrapped up, and all the training, all
1:47:19 of the go forward, all the
1:47:21 policies are in place, and we’ve made a running start so the
1:47:25 permanent superintendent can go forward
1:47:28 with the board in a different fashion.
1:47:31 Now, I need a steering committee.
1:47:33 Basically, what I’m trying to work through here is a group of
1:47:38 the internal people, a small group, that’s
1:47:42 going to help do the following.
1:47:45 One, go forward with our purpose to help advise.
1:47:50 Not do, but then target the kinds of things that are being done
1:47:54 by external committees, as
1:47:56 well as problem solve, so that we can work with the people that
1:48:01 are within.
1:48:02 Now, there are two things that I’ve tried to pull together.
1:48:06 One is that we had a video with RSM, project manager Campbell Weiss,
1:48:17 as well as with Laura, I’m
1:48:21 sorry?
1:48:22 Van Love.
1:48:24 Right.
1:48:25 And that we did that on, I believe, Thursday on another audit
1:48:28 that’s been complete, which
1:48:30 okay, will then be brought forward to the audit committee on
1:48:34 Thursday.
1:48:35 All good.
1:48:36 And at that point, they asked me, they were seeking
1:48:40 clarification as to what they should
1:48:42 be doing in light of what previous communications they have had
1:48:47 with this board or board chair with
1:48:50 regard to an audit of the discipline.
1:48:55 And that’s where we spent an hour talking about what they would
1:49:00 think their role would
1:49:02 be, what I would think their role would be, and was very tight
1:49:06 and closely aligned.
1:49:07 And I asked them, for clarity’s sake, please send me today, or
1:49:13 by today or yesterday, a proposal.
1:49:17 Okay.
1:49:18 Now, that is what they did.
1:49:20 And send, and that I think is attached to your, a memorandum
1:49:24 that I received last evening.
1:49:27 It’s in your book to read.
1:49:29 And I like to go through that.
1:49:31 And similarly, late afternoon, in concert with a number of
1:49:34 conversations I had beginning
1:49:36 in Christmas, and then about 3:45 yesterday, according to my log,
1:49:41 after exchanging cell phone
1:49:44 voicemails, Mr. Hay from OSS, Department of Office of Safety and
1:49:49 Security.
1:49:50 We have been talking multiple times since the day before
1:49:54 Christmas to yesterday, where I
1:49:57 explained that I wanted to know what is it that he needs in
1:50:02 order to satisfy what he believed
1:50:05 the needs for investigation of whatever he’s looking for.
1:50:09 And we’re prepared to provide.
1:50:11 And I also explained what it is that your internal auditors are,
1:50:16 and I went through the entire proposal.
1:50:21 And his affirmation was good, because he doesn’t have the kind
1:50:26 of staffing needed for all the
1:50:29 things he’s doing statewide.
1:50:30 That with the information that their audit’s going to do, with
1:50:34 the kind of work that we’re
1:50:35 trying to do inside with our policies and regulation, that it
1:50:38 would put them in the point of being
1:50:40 able to review all of that, of the results of the audit and what
1:50:43 we’re doing, and serve
1:50:45 as the quality control to make sure that they are satisfied with
1:50:49 whatever it is that they
1:50:51 were going to investigate.
1:50:53 So he, and if you decide to go forward with this, and RSM and we
1:51:02 are going to have the information,
1:51:05 and if you wish to change the scope of their work, that’s your
1:51:08 prerogative.
1:51:09 This is a running start.
1:51:11 And they’re prepared if you make a determination when you wish
1:51:15 to go forward.
1:51:16 And Mr. Gibbs can explain the legality and the timeframe.
1:51:20 We can go to the audit committee if you wish.
1:51:22 But the important thing is that we could now understand that we’ve
1:51:27 got several moving pieces
1:51:28 that have been somewhat amorphous, people looking for direction,
1:51:31 that I think we’ve been able,
1:51:33 I’ve been able to consolidate this in a reasonable fashion.
1:51:37 Get the external committees, and you’ve appointed some people to
1:51:41 it.
1:51:42 Get their input, but define what it is that they’re going to
1:51:45 focus on from their perspective.
1:51:47 Number one, get the internal folks, and the principals as they’re
1:51:51 through the representation,
1:51:53 and the teachers, and local 1010, and me, and with our staff as
1:51:58 resources.
1:51:59 Major Neal, the assistant superintendents, their directors, and
1:52:07 Mr. Gibbs.
1:52:09 Whatever it is that they will be called upon for the technical
1:52:13 side, we can draw upon them.
1:52:17 So, RSM, as I explained here, that OSS will use the results of
1:52:23 the audit, our internal work, the steering committee’s work,
1:52:26 and other committee’s input, and board actions, that they would
1:52:30 then, would not pursue a planned investigation,
1:52:34 but then critique at the end, because they’ll be hand in glove
1:52:39 with us, and determine then to what extent we are in a place
1:52:44 where everyone wants to be by the end of this.
1:52:47 So, therefore, what, if we might just, I’m still building this
1:52:53 agenda for draft agenda items of a posted meeting, according to
1:52:58 your policy and board council,
1:53:01 to go through these reviews of kinds of things that need to be
1:53:05 done, and I’m waiting for the input from these organizations
1:53:09 this week by Wednesday to put out the final agenda.
1:53:12 It’s a public meeting, according to your policies, anyone can
1:53:17 sit through the meeting, but it’s a working group.
1:53:21 So, now, if you take a look at what RSM, I’m sure you didn’t
1:53:27 have a chance to read this.
1:53:28 If you would like for me to go through it, I’d be happy since
1:53:31 you got this very late.
1:53:32 But essentially, what they’re saying to me is that right now
1:53:37 they have an internal auditor work plan for the year.
1:53:42 They give you three options if you wish to go forward at the end
1:53:49 on the second page.
1:53:51 Option one, you could choose to forego performing internal audit
1:53:55 of student discipline at this time, which will result in no
1:53:59 change your annual audit plan,
1:54:01 which I don’t think is in anyone’s best interest to forego that
1:54:04 investigation or that audit.
1:54:06 Number two is that if you would prefer to swap out the internal
1:54:11 audit of student discipline and replace the property control
1:54:16 internal audit on the current audit plan,
1:54:18 there would be no impact to the budget of what you’ve allocated
1:54:23 as a swap out.
1:54:24 Or thirdly, if you wish to add to there, number three is the
1:54:30 option we discussed late yesterday afternoon or early evening.
1:54:34 If you choose to perform the student discipline audit in
1:54:38 addition to their current, and they haven’t really necessarily
1:54:42 begun,
1:54:42 the property audit, it would be an additional amount as so
1:54:46 specified here.
1:54:47 So, you would have Chinese menu A, B, or C, and you can get an
1:54:54 egg roll with that if you wish.
1:54:55 I’m sorry if I’m being light about it, but the point being is
1:54:59 that I want to bring to the board your options and what it is
1:55:03 that the scope of work as proposed by RSM would be,
1:55:06 and to see if it meets with your agreement and give me the
1:55:10 direction and give to our RSM the direction.
1:55:14 And then I can communicate back to them they were not able to be
1:55:16 here today because of what I said that I would present this so I
1:55:21 can tell them which way and then go on.
1:55:23 And Mr. Gibbs, would you help me with the process of terms of
1:55:26 the board with regard to the audit committee, what action they
1:55:29 need to take or not need to take here, or what we could do in
1:55:32 February?
1:55:33 All right, yeah, if the board provides direction to move forward
1:55:36 either with option two or three, then three obviously has a
1:55:39 price increase.
1:55:40 That’ll have to come to the board to approve the monetary change
1:55:44 to the contract for this year anyways.
1:55:46 So that would be at February’s meeting.
1:55:48 The audit committee can be updated on Thursday that the board
1:55:52 provided direction.
1:55:53 If you’re going to swap out, that wouldn’t require board action
1:55:56 moving forward.
1:55:57 It would just be a swap out net zero impact to the district.
1:56:00 We can advise the audit committee on Thursday that, hey, we’re
1:56:04 swapping out the internal property control with the discipline
1:56:07 audit.
1:56:07 And then the audit committee would be advised of that and RSM
1:56:11 would then move forward with conducting the discipline audit.
1:56:15 Thanks.
1:56:16 Thank you for that, Dr. Schiller.
1:56:18 I wanted to go before we get into the RSM conversation.
1:56:21 We had spoken a little bit about the steering committee.
1:56:23 What I may have heard you say, just so that we can stay in a
1:56:27 process.
1:56:28 You wanted to create a BPS under the policy, create an advisory
1:56:33 committee that has interim superintendent, two to three members
1:56:35 from Major Neal’s staff.
1:56:37 No, I didn’t say that, sir.
1:56:38 Okay.
1:56:39 No.
1:56:40 He is, that would have, I, you know, I’m trying to write this up
1:56:43 and it was premature in terms
1:56:45 of, in the paragraph, or rather a comma wasn’t there.
1:56:48 Okay.
1:56:49 That was an example.
1:56:50 Okay.
1:56:51 That Major Neal would be a resource as would be assistant
1:56:53 superintendent, assistant superintendent,
1:56:56 director, legal counsel.
1:56:57 You know, that, he would be staffing it as needed.
1:57:01 Are you, so you’re at, I, I’m, I’m, I just, you’re saying you’re
1:57:06 going to establish a steering
1:57:08 committee for discipline and this was kind of the framework, but
1:57:12 it might change back and
1:57:13 forth depending.
1:57:14 Well, I’m, I’m thinking that it’s a small working group that
1:57:16 would be able to help clarify.
1:57:18 Sure.
1:57:19 These different things, bring the issues to it, and then we can
1:57:23 work with the larger committees
1:57:24 over this period of time.
1:57:25 Yeah.
1:57:26 To have the input that we’re getting.
1:57:28 And I, forgive me, I’m not quite sure what each of the
1:57:31 committees that have been formed,
1:57:33 I’m not up to speed, what their charge is.
1:57:36 So, in effect, internal working group that’s going to kind of
1:57:41 help me plan this out.
1:57:43 But what will come back to the board is any action
1:57:46 recommendation, of course, for your
1:57:49 approval.
1:57:50 No, there’s no power associated because your board policy.
1:57:54 It has the superintendent creating, reporting back to the board,
1:57:58 and then it all rests with
1:57:59 you, much like you want to go forward in this kind of direction.
1:58:02 Sure.
1:58:03 It’s kind of a way for me to manage a smaller group that’s
1:58:07 focused.
1:58:08 Yeah, I think, I think, I think if you were looking for
1:58:12 direction from the staff to create
1:58:13 something like this along with using that as an opportunity to
1:58:17 establish a bigger one that ties
1:58:18 into the community.
1:58:19 I’m okay with that.
1:58:20 I just think that he was looking for direction here and I wanted
1:58:23 to do that before we got
1:58:23 to the office.
1:58:24 Thank you.
1:58:26 So, if we can give him a thumbs up on that.
1:58:27 I need clarification for anyone else on this.
1:58:29 That’s, thank you.
1:58:30 Sure.
1:58:31 That’s it.
1:58:32 So, Ms. Campbell, you have a question?
1:58:33 Yeah.
1:58:34 So, I think, so it sounds like we’ve, we’ve, we’ve had two
1:58:37 different, this is a different
1:58:39 committee from what was sent out to us earlier.
1:58:41 So, I think it sounds like this is something that would be an
1:58:44 ongoing or standing committee
1:58:45 that would be problem solving through.
1:58:47 And that sounds like the committee that when we had the
1:58:49 discipline meeting in December 8th
1:58:50 that we, the, I think it was the BF2 suggested, hey, we used to
1:58:54 have a committee.
1:58:55 We’re going to always have problems.
1:58:56 We’re going to always need to do the problem solving.
1:58:58 So, that small advisory committee sounds like that’s what that,
1:59:04 that would be.
1:59:06 And so, that’s, that’s fine.
1:59:08 I had, I had a little question because you referenced policy 9140
1:59:13 about, and I think I just answered
1:59:16 it for myself, but there’s a place in policy 9140 that says all
1:59:20 appointments of staff members,
1:59:21 which I made by the superintendent, staff members shall never
1:59:24 constitute more than a minority of
1:59:26 any such committee.
1:59:28 I, so I just want to, when I first read that, I’m like, oh, we
1:59:31 need to have citizens on that.
1:59:32 But I thought, no, because when we have SIAC, it’s different.
1:59:34 So, it’s staff meaning like district level staff.
1:59:38 Am I interpreting that correctly now, Mr. Gibbs?
1:59:43 Yeah, the policy just says my, the staff is going to make up a
1:59:46 minority.
1:59:47 So, staff, I would say are.
1:59:48 The staff appointed by the superintendent.
1:59:49 Right.
1:59:50 Yeah.
1:59:51 The super appoints all staff members.
1:59:52 So, those appointed by the superintendent are going to be a
1:59:54 minority of the committee.
1:59:55 So, in this case, the ones that come from BFT and BASA and 1010
1:59:59 would be like, they just
2:00:00 need to be the majority of the.
2:00:01 Yeah.
2:00:02 They’re the outside, yeah.
2:00:03 Okay.
2:00:04 So, I agree.
2:00:05 I think we need to reestablish that.
2:00:07 That way you’ve got a group that can be regularly working on
2:00:10 things that come up.
2:00:11 But then, we were, Ms. Moore sent a plan out on January 9th,
2:00:19 giving a, more of a community-based,
2:00:24 or stake, involving more stakeholders, which would include board
2:00:26 representatives.
2:00:27 And, of course, we have staff who are parents.
2:00:30 So, anytime we have a community like that, we’re including
2:00:32 parents in there.
2:00:33 But just in that, in that specific role, I think, and then we
2:00:37 got an email from Ms.
2:00:39 Bland, last week, the week before, asking us to send the name of
2:00:43 our representative.
2:00:45 I actually have a fabulous representative of that committee.
2:00:47 We decide we want to do that.
2:00:49 But that was more for a specific time, five meetings, not a
2:00:52 standing committee, maybe to
2:00:55 address the urgent issues now.
2:00:57 So, Dr. Schiller, are you recommending that we do also go ahead
2:01:00 and have that committee,
2:01:01 but that they work, you know, during the same timeframe, but on
2:01:06 a different angle?
2:01:09 Mr. Chairman, do you want to?
2:01:12 No, no, no.
2:01:13 This is your recommendation.
2:01:14 I think he put this down.
2:01:15 Part of the conversation is that I think they’re going to create
2:01:20 a larger group with
2:01:21 school board members and all that stuff after.
2:01:24 That’s where I took it, but Dr. Schiller, this is you.
2:01:27 Concurrently.
2:01:28 Okay.
2:01:29 I want what you have put in motion so we can get the broadest
2:01:34 type of input.
2:01:36 And if you want to create, I just, frankly, there’s been some
2:01:40 miscommunication within, between
2:01:42 the board, between the departing or departed assistant
2:01:49 superintendent and Ms. Bland.
2:01:52 Ms. Bland is following the directions as she understood it being
2:01:56 directed.
2:01:57 However, there was a time a week or two ago when, in effect,
2:02:02 that there was a, that this
2:02:04 is now my bailiwick.
2:02:07 And that I would, I’m trying to do a little catch up with it and
2:02:11 Ms. Bland, who has been
2:02:12 an incredible resource, is, is, is following what was thought to
2:02:17 be the direction.
2:02:18 But there was a miscommunication somewhat there.
2:02:21 What I want you to do is that whatever you have in motion, we
2:02:24 want to keep.
2:02:25 Whatever you want to augment.
2:02:26 And those are the folks that we need the broader buy-in and from
2:02:30 their perspectives.
2:02:32 Is there clarity as to what each of the different groups have as
2:02:36 to what their charge is?
2:02:37 I don’t, I mean, it’s not in motion yet.
2:02:40 I mean, I mean, we had our representatives.
2:02:41 That’s what we want to get in motion, right?
2:02:43 I know I sent mine in.
2:02:44 And Ms. Bland said, I don’t know if everybody sent theirs in.
2:02:47 And I don’t have a problem with having, you know, to, but I hear
2:02:52 what you’re saying is,
2:02:53 what’s the purpose?
2:02:54 Because we don’t need to have this committee over here, this siting.
2:02:56 They’re going to give this, these suggestions to the board.
2:02:59 And this committee over here is saying they’re going to give
2:03:01 these suggestions to the board.
2:03:02 There needs to, it needs to be done in concert.
2:03:04 So if we need to put a pause on that until we know what we need
2:03:10 from that group.
2:03:11 Yes.
2:03:12 Because we, because none of those, if RSM, and it makes a
2:03:16 conversation, but if RSM is not
2:03:17 going to come back to us, they said four to six weeks, that’s a
2:03:19 pretty short turnaround.
2:03:20 If we’re not going to have that from RSM to really, to be able
2:03:24 to identify the problem
2:03:25 areas for, you know, four to six weeks, which is a short
2:03:28 turnaround, it, maybe we need to
2:03:30 just wait.
2:03:31 Yes.
2:03:32 And I think, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re far more
2:03:35 articulate than I am.
2:03:36 The bottom point is, is that we need a baseline of what it is
2:03:41 and not on hearsay or not on
2:03:44 random.
2:03:45 We need a baseline.
2:03:47 My understanding is that RSM was originally approached to do
2:03:54 that investigation and give us the baseline
2:03:57 so that we’re not, you know, how many problems do we have?
2:04:00 600 out of 78,000 students?
2:04:02 I don’t know.
2:04:03 But we do, you know, we don’t want to put 2%, 95%, 98% of our
2:04:09 effort to 2%.
2:04:10 But I think pause might be temporary until there’s a redefinition
2:04:16 of what, how many committees
2:04:19 are there?
2:04:20 Right now.
2:04:21 I apologize.
2:04:22 I’m not fully read in on all of that.
2:04:24 There is none at this time.
2:04:25 None.
2:04:26 We were asked to give names to submit.
2:04:28 Thank you.
2:04:29 And that’s, with your direction and advice, then we are able to
2:04:35 then put this in effect.
2:04:38 And this is what I’m trying to do with the steering committee is,
2:04:40 all right, this is a landscape.
2:04:43 Let’s define it to our full advantage.
2:04:46 And it may very well be that the pause would be the orientation
2:04:51 and explanation of laws and
2:04:53 statutes awaiting this data and this piece.
2:04:58 And, yes, it’s a tight turnaround.
2:05:00 I asked Mr. Weiss, please, this is something that’s hanging fire.
2:05:04 It’s taking a lot of time and great attention.
2:05:07 And so we need to get to the bottom of it by an independent
2:05:11 auditor.
2:05:13 And, therefore, our perceptions may be then moderated by the
2:05:19 reality of data and the audit.
2:05:22 And if we can possibly do that in accordance with revising the
2:05:30 board policies, then it’s
2:05:33 a very rational way to move within our desired timeframe.
2:05:38 Thank you for that clarification.
2:05:41 Okay.
2:05:42 So, basically, you’re creating the small committee to then
2:05:45 communicate and then create a larger
2:05:48 committee.
2:05:49 And then, based on the larger committee, we’ll have some draft
2:05:51 and stuff like that moving forward
2:05:52 in the future.
2:05:53 Okay.
2:05:54 So, we’re trying to do that.
2:06:06 To make sure we have buy-in.
2:06:07 I think that’s what the whole point is.
2:06:09 Here, allow stakeholders to be a part of the process.
2:06:13 And then, you can make an informed decision and not a hurried
2:06:17 one.
2:06:17 And it also gives all of us a data base upon which to evaluate
2:06:21 policy direction.
2:06:23 I think, to me, that’s how I look upon the problem solving.
2:06:28 We can work the problem and then we can solve it if we know what
2:06:31 the problems are.
2:06:32 Sure.
2:06:33 So, one of the things I would say is, are you guys going to take
2:06:35 minutes kind of stuff to
2:06:37 where we as a board know what was discussed inside there?
2:06:39 Good.
2:06:40 Okay.
2:06:41 And Ms. Wright, go ahead.
2:06:42 That was the intention because it was a public meeting.
2:06:44 Okay.
2:06:45 Tammy, you didn’t know that yet.
2:06:46 But, be as it may, I think, whomever can be assigned to do that.
2:06:51 Because, again, full transparency.
2:06:52 If people want to sit wherever we’re going to be in the audience
2:06:56 to observe, you know,
2:06:58 there’s nothing being hidden about this.
2:07:00 It’s just that I’m trying to bring some order to it.
2:07:02 If, indeed, it’s my responsibility, this is my suggested go-forward
2:07:08 plan to bring, how
2:07:08 to bring the pieces together.
2:07:09 Okay.
2:07:10 Right.
2:07:11 You have a question?
2:07:12 I just want to clarify to make sure that we’re back on target
2:07:15 here.
2:07:15 So, as a board, we need to decide which one of these RSM options,
2:07:18 because it sounds like
2:07:20 the Office of Safe Schools is looking for something from RSM,
2:07:24 right, to appease this audit.
2:07:27 So, I just want to – that’s correct.
2:07:29 The Office of Safe Schools is going to take this RSM audit in
2:07:33 lieu of them coming in to do
2:07:34 a thorough audit.
2:07:35 Precisely.
2:07:36 Okay.
2:07:37 So, if you look at his discipline issues and matters, this was
2:07:40 his next number three.
2:07:41 Okay.
2:07:42 So, we’re on the RSM.
2:07:43 You guys – and I’m sorry, I didn’t get this at the same time as
2:07:46 you guys got it.
2:07:47 We got it yesterday.
2:07:48 Sorry about bringing it at the last minute.
2:07:50 I did ask for an audit.
2:07:53 I did ask for them to move on it, right?
2:07:56 And so, what ended up happening is this was the best case
2:08:02 because we wanted to move forward
2:08:04 with a discipline audit before.
2:08:05 I had requested this for RSM years ago, and because of COVID, it
2:08:10 took us back a year because
2:08:12 of – and Dr. Mullins came to me one day and he says, “Listen,
2:08:14 we were going to discipline.
2:08:16 We’re going to do the audit on discipline, but we’re in the
2:08:18 middle of a COVID crisis.
2:08:19 Can we push it?”
2:08:20 So, technically, when you look at some of these options, the
2:08:23 option two, which is the
2:08:24 internal audit instead of property control, it was technically
2:08:28 before this one anyway.
2:08:30 So, just so you guys know, there was a plan to move to student
2:08:33 discipline.
2:08:34 This was also recommended by the actual audit committee.
2:08:38 So, it’s within line of what was already done.
2:08:41 So, I think number two would be a good option because it gives
2:08:44 us the zero impact, right?
2:08:45 But I did want to just let you guys know this was a process that
2:08:48 was brought forward before.
2:08:49 So, with that, Ms. Jenkins, do you have direction on what you
2:08:53 would like to do?
2:08:54 Yeah.
2:08:55 If this was a process that was brought forward before, I wish we
2:08:58 would have mentioned that
2:08:59 two months ago when we started this conversation.
2:09:01 Dr. Schiller, correct me if I’m wrong here.
2:09:04 I’m going to make an assuming statement.
2:09:07 But my gut tells me if the Office of State Schools is willing to
2:09:10 relinquish their audit to RSM.
2:09:14 It tells me they can’t be super, super concerned.
2:09:18 But correct me if I’m wrong there, because you’re the one who
2:09:20 had the conversation with them.
2:09:22 Because I did ask that and I wasn’t able to ask you and get an
2:09:25 answer if they had told you that they had any major red flags
2:09:27 when they visited us previously.
2:09:29 I also appreciate you saying, by doing this, perceptions can be
2:09:34 met with the reality of data.
2:09:36 And I agree with you.
2:09:37 I think we’ve created a disaster and we owe it to our community
2:09:41 to come to the table with actual, hardcore data.
2:09:45 When it comes to options one, two, or three, I don’t want to
2:09:48 spend more money.
2:09:49 My gut tells me that, you know, we’re really proactive here in
2:09:53 Brevard when it comes to auditing our departments.
2:09:56 And I don’t think there was like some major reason we were auditing
2:10:00 property control.
2:10:02 And so I think it’s okay for us to push it aside.
2:10:05 And like you said, if they haven’t started anything yet, we’re
2:10:07 not wasting anybody’s time and energy.
2:10:08 So I am comfortable with option number two.
2:10:11 Perfect.
2:10:12 Ms. Campbell.
2:10:14 Yeah, I was trying to really quick do a search for the audit
2:10:17 universe, the latest audit universe,
2:10:19 because I was trying to figure out how long it’s been since we’ve
2:10:22 done property control.
2:10:23 But it looks like obviously the public – don’t worry about it,
2:10:27 Cindy.
2:10:28 She’s looking.
2:10:29 This is a priority.
2:10:31 This is – I think we all are understanding that we need to move
2:10:34 on this.
2:10:35 So I prefer option two to swap them out for right now as opposed
2:10:39 to spending another $35,000.
2:10:42 Sounds good.
2:10:43 Mr. Trent.
2:10:44 Yeah, makes total sense.
2:10:47 Option two makes complete sense.
2:10:49 So I think we have consensus already with you.
2:10:52 Option two is what I’d pick as well.
2:10:54 Good.
2:10:55 And I did want to give clarification.
2:10:56 I spoke to the Office of Safe Schools yesterday around 10 o’clock,
2:10:59 and he said that he was coming in two weeks,
2:11:01 and he was bogged down in Broward.
2:11:02 But Mr. Schiller had spoken to him around 4 o’clock, apparently,
2:11:06 and had gotten that communication that this would be and suffice
2:11:10 of it.
2:11:10 He probably also is thinking that in the event that he’s down in
2:11:14 Broward for a longer amount of time, that this makes sense to
2:11:17 get moving on pulling most of the data for him.
2:11:19 And it kind of helps him with that investigation.
2:11:21 When I spoke to him on the phone yesterday, he did have
2:11:25 considerable concerns, but he wanted to wait until he saw the
2:11:28 data.
2:11:29 So he was definitely moving forward with coming, but as long as
2:11:32 we’re communicating ahead, we look pretty good.
2:11:34 And that’s what ultimately the goal of the Safe Schools is, is
2:11:37 to make sure that if we haven’t followed proper procedures, that
2:11:40 they then just make recommendations on how to make those other
2:11:43 changes.
2:11:44 And if the school district doesn’t move forward on some of those
2:11:46 changes, then there’s corrective actions past that.
2:11:48 But that’s usually just the process so that everybody knows.
2:11:51 The response to you and to Mrs. Jenkins, yes, this is coming
2:11:55 together very quickly at the end of the day.
2:11:59 I will then get a confirming letter from OSS and RSM that will
2:12:04 get to you in terms of what I’m articulating.
2:12:09 So therefore, there’s no reason for both organizations to be
2:12:13 looking for the same data.
2:12:15 Right.
2:12:16 Nor make it into an investigation when we don’t know if it’s an
2:12:20 investigation.
2:12:22 But because of the fact that I think this board now being
2:12:27 proactive and pulling it all together, that we proceed on this
2:12:32 plan.
2:12:33 Again, I had laid this plan out both to RSM as well as to Mr.
2:12:37 Hay.
2:12:38 They feel comfortable that RSM is going to speed up.
2:12:42 I even know who they’re going to assign to this project because
2:12:46 they have great resources.
2:12:47 That they’re going to now accelerate and also provide us
2:12:51 preliminary findings earlier until the final report.
2:12:57 It gives us the running start.
2:13:00 Mr. OSS will get a copy of what the work plan is.
2:13:04 They’re going to be working with them just to make sure
2:13:07 everybody is getting the information that they all need.
2:13:10 So, you know, and I will coordinate all this because this is an
2:13:15 important thing for the board.
2:13:17 I hope that satisfy what your questions have come up.
2:13:21 That essentially, yes, that they would be in a confirming
2:13:26 capacity after it’s done.
2:13:28 But they’re going to be part of this all the way through, ma’am.
2:13:31 So, I have a follow-up, though, because there was a statement
2:13:35 made that we spoke to OSS and they have grave concerns.
2:13:38 I’m going to say this again.
2:13:40 The chairman is not privy to information.
2:13:43 All board members should know of this information.
2:13:45 If that is true, I would like in writing what said grave
2:13:49 concerns were.
2:13:50 We shouldn’t be hearing about this just like willy-nilly at a
2:13:52 board meeting.
2:13:53 It doesn’t make any sense.
2:13:54 I haven’t heard anyone else tell me that there was grave
2:13:58 concerns from OSS.
2:13:59 Dr. Schiller, you also had a phone call with them.
2:14:01 Did they relay those grave concerns to you?
2:14:04 No, ma’am.
2:14:07 Thank you.
2:14:08 So, Mr. Susan, I am requesting that, however you can do it, and
2:14:11 if it’s not able to be in writing because of sunshine, you can
2:14:14 talk to Mr. Gibbs about how to do that effectively.
2:14:16 I would like you to let the board know what these so-called
2:14:20 grave concerns were.
2:14:21 Because, again, we’re sitting here having a conversation, and
2:14:24 apparently you’re privileged to information, and yet you have
2:14:27 not shared with us.
2:14:28 But it wasn’t shared with Mr. Schiller either, so it’s
2:14:31 concerning to me.
2:14:32 Sure.
2:14:33 I think part of the conversation is that there have been assessor
2:14:37 violations that have been given to them, that they felt like the
2:14:41 people who gave them to them had been felt like that they were
2:14:45 genuine.
2:14:46 They had also been given some other information.
2:14:49 By who?
2:14:50 I was not sure about, but that was confirmed, and them moving
2:14:53 forward were based on some of those.
2:14:55 And to be honest with you, he had said that he was ready to move
2:14:59 forward with, you know, following up on some of those, but he’s
2:15:02 been down in Broward, so that kind of keeps him back.
2:15:05 So there is some sort of something that was handed to them by
2:15:08 somebody, which I’m not privy to, but that is part of the reason
2:15:11 that he just wanted to kind of keep his eyes on it.
2:15:14 I think the plan going forward is appropriate, and we’re going
2:15:17 to get down to the bottom based on some of the stuff that we’re
2:15:19 looking at.
2:15:20 So there is some sort of concerns based on some of the stuff
2:15:23 that has been allegated, but they always give some sort of, you
2:15:27 know, research to try to find that out.
2:15:29 Okay, but some sort of somethings and feelings are not facts
2:15:33 proof in data, and when you make that statement out to the
2:15:36 public that there are grave concerns and you can’t back that up
2:15:42 with actual facts, that’s concerning to me.
2:15:46 We are causing more problems for our community.
2:15:50 So if you could maybe, I don’t know, call them back and ask for
2:15:52 something specific, that’d be great.
2:15:54 Thank you.
2:15:55 Ms. Jenkins, I just want to kind of say I’m not part of the
2:15:59 investigative team.
2:16:00 So like when he calls me, just because I do, I’m not part of the
2:16:04 investigative team.
2:16:05 I don’t have the data that they have.
2:16:07 By me asking them would be a rhetorical kind of general question,
2:16:10 but I can see what I can put together for you.
2:16:12 So just so you know, but when we had all of our unions sitting
2:16:16 here telling about some of the stories that were going on, they
2:16:20 had grave concerns on top of that.
2:16:22 So they’re just going to investigate and they may, like they
2:16:24 said, come back that they’re not true.
2:16:26 And if that’s the case, then we move on.
2:16:28 But we have a situation that needs to be investigated.
2:16:31 And I think that that’s what they’re willing to do.
2:16:33 So Ms. Campbell, go ahead.
2:16:34 That’s my point.
2:16:35 What is the situation being investigated?
2:16:37 I think I can, you can answer that.
2:16:39 I think this will help.
2:16:40 If I can clarify.
2:16:41 So well, it’s an answer to your earlier question.
2:16:43 OSS Office of Safe Schools has not done an audit or at this
2:16:48 point.
2:16:49 However, I was made aware that they were here.
2:16:53 They came to Brevard very shortly after that discipline meeting.
2:16:58 If we have information from them, I think it would be good if
2:17:01 they did.
2:17:02 I mean, it doesn’t sound like you finish an investigation, but
2:17:04 if they had something.
2:17:06 It also sounds like OSS has unaudited, uninvestigated reports
2:17:13 that were given to them.
2:17:16 That’s what all we have right now is uninvestigated, potentially
2:17:20 anonymous reports that were given to them.
2:17:23 And so this is going to solve that problem.
2:17:24 But if there was something that we did get from them that was
2:17:28 given to staff or whoever, that was, you know, in the days they
2:17:32 were here,
2:17:32 because it was my understanding they came and they showed up at
2:17:35 several schools and they showed up at the central office.
2:17:39 So, I mean, I’d kind of like to have what they have so far.
2:17:43 It would be nice unless that’s, I mean, if that’s against the
2:17:45 law or against their practices, I guess they can’t give it to us.
2:17:48 But we can ask, can’t we?
2:17:49 I think, I can ask, but I will say that part of investigations
2:17:52 is they just wait to the end.
2:17:54 But I will ask, just so you guys know.
2:17:56 The other thing is, is that you’re right, they did come.
2:17:59 And part of the problems with OSS, and it’s reported many times,
2:18:02 is that they are so understaffed that to be able to effectively
2:18:06 do what they needed to do was difficult.
2:18:08 So that’s the reason of the delay.
2:18:10 So they came in, did an initial poll, got some information, and
2:18:13 then now they’re sitting on that waiting to come back.
2:18:16 And Dr. Schiller communicated to them to create a situation that
2:18:19 RSM can also do some information.
2:18:21 Maybe they’ll see if they align, whatever that is, and come
2:18:24 forward.
2:18:25 I was not given any information from them.
2:18:27 I was not told, but they said that they had received some stuff
2:18:30 and that there were some concerns over that.
2:18:32 And moving forward, that they’d like to come back.
2:18:34 There’s not a official report yet.
2:18:36 Well, I’m not talking about you, honestly, because I don’t think
2:18:38 that the Office of Safe Schools report to the chairman of the
2:18:41 board.
2:18:41 I think they report back to district leadership.
2:18:43 So I’m not talking about you.
2:18:44 I’m not talking about asking for you.
2:18:45 If, if the district has received something from the Office of
2:18:48 Safe Schools, I’d like a copy.
2:18:50 Yep.
2:18:51 Thank you.
2:18:52 All right.
2:18:53 So what I would say on the RSM audit is, is that it seems like
2:18:57 we would like to get, if there’s any reports or data that they
2:19:04 pull, so that everybody understands.
2:19:05 Sometimes we get a report back that’s like a 15 page overview
2:19:09 and stuff like that.
2:19:10 But I would like to, Dr. Schiller, in the event that they’re
2:19:13 doing it, I would like to get the same data that they receive
2:19:15 when they’re doing all of that.
2:19:17 So when they do their investigations and when they are reviewing
2:19:21 some of those things, they give those back to us.
2:19:25 Does that make sense to you?
2:19:28 It makes sense to me.
2:19:29 I would just check with Mr. Gibbs if indeed during the course of
2:19:33 an audit.
2:19:33 I don’t need it until after.
2:19:35 Oh, okay.
2:19:36 I thought you meant I’m going.
2:19:37 Yeah, when it’s all reported, I just want to make sure.
2:19:38 As long as that is the standard practice here, while they’re
2:19:41 doing an audit of what can be released, we’ll go with that.
2:19:44 If they wish, if you wish to know what I know as it goes along,
2:19:48 certainly if indeed it’s the standard practice they only then
2:19:53 release after they’re completed, then I would just need guidance
2:19:56 on that.
2:19:57 Sure.
2:19:58 So it’s public record whatever they do.
2:20:01 So technically at the end we should all be able to get it.
2:20:04 I just wanted to make sure that it’s reported to the board.
2:20:06 Yeah.
2:20:07 At the end, their report will be a public record.
2:20:10 I don’t believe they provide like updates as they go like
2:20:14 monthly or anything.
2:20:15 I’ve never asked for an update.
2:20:16 All I would request is that when they’re finished to take a look
2:20:19 at the data that they received to make their justifications.
2:20:21 The other thing I would do is to make sure that those RSM meets
2:20:25 with our unions and associations to see if there’s anything that
2:20:30 they have that they may want to be a part of it.
2:20:33 And I would also make sure that they interview our principals
2:20:37 and stuff like that.
2:20:38 That’s all.
2:20:39 So I think that’s part of it, but I wanted to reiterate that.
2:20:41 I have a problem.
2:20:42 Hang on.
2:20:44 I think that’s a good question.
2:20:45 Maybe just for clarification, now that the board has sent a
2:20:49 direction, I would be adding this to the agenda for the steering
2:20:53 committee for their information how RSM is going to move forward.
2:20:57 Perfect.
2:20:58 And obviously part of their work plan is going to be doing this
2:21:02 survey and whatever.
2:21:04 So if you indeed see something as you get more leisure time, we
2:21:08 haven’t signed anything.
2:21:10 This is just a proposal.
2:21:11 We can edit it.
2:21:13 And Mr. Weiss, that team is wonderful to work with.
2:21:16 Mr. Hay has been very good to work with for the last four weeks
2:21:20 that I’ve been working with him.
2:21:23 We’ve been trying to communicate.
2:21:24 And yes, admittedly, because when I ran states, I had the same
2:21:29 offices and they’re notoriously understaffed, that we’re taking
2:21:35 a bit of a burden off them.
2:21:36 If we do the work, as the board has indicated, going ahead proactively
2:21:42 here, and they can then be able to serve in a confirming factor,
2:21:47 and if they find something still extant, then we know we’ve got
2:21:51 to go back to it.
2:21:52 And then, yeah, Ms. Campbell, go ahead.
2:21:54 Before we jump off that, I appreciate the, I have one problem
2:21:59 with the request, and I think the steering committee absolutely
2:22:03 should help with that.
2:22:04 But I’m not concerned with RSM going to the union and hearing
2:22:07 what their concerns are.
2:22:08 They’ve said they’re going to survey staff.
2:22:09 Those will include union members.
2:22:11 But RSM doesn’t answer to the union.
2:22:13 They answer to the board.
2:22:14 They’re doing a service for us.
2:22:15 And the ultimate purpose is to get down to what is best for
2:22:18 students and this district and for staff.
2:22:20 So I mean, whether they need to meet with union members, they’re
2:22:23 going to hear the stories and they’re going to see the day they
2:22:25 need to pull.
2:22:26 They’re auditors.
2:22:27 This is what they do.
2:22:28 This is their job.
2:22:29 So I’m not sure why the union leadership, no offense to the
2:22:33 union members, but I don’t know, understand why they would need
2:22:37 to be a part of that conversation as a union, you know, not as
2:22:42 individual union members who will obviously be giving their
2:22:44 input.
2:22:44 Yeah, I think the reason is, is that they’re the ones that kind
2:22:47 of blew the red flag on some of the stuff that was going on.
2:22:50 They were a part of this meeting.
2:22:51 So I think that they should be part of the conversation.
2:22:53 But I do want to make sure you’re okay with the principals being
2:22:55 interviewed and stuff like that.
2:22:57 Well, I mean, that’s part of their process.
2:22:58 I mean, they’re, they are going to dig into the data, but it’s
2:23:01 going to be an independent audit.
2:23:03 They need to, they need to.
2:23:04 We just want to make sure that certain entities that we know are
2:23:06 part of it.
2:23:07 So if everybody’s in agreeance with that, we’re good to go.
2:23:09 So Dr. Schiller, I think you have option two on the thing.
2:23:12 You have your discipline committee and you also have, if I can
2:23:16 do this, direction on that cell phone policy, if that makes
2:23:20 sense.
2:23:20 Okay.
2:23:21 I have a, I have a clarifying question since we are on the topic
2:23:25 of OSS.
2:23:26 Mr. Susan, I would like you to clarify for the community.
2:23:29 I don’t think we’re on the topic of OSS.
2:23:30 Whether or not you called them and asked them to come here or if
2:23:34 they came here just on their own.
2:23:36 No, they came.
2:23:38 OSS was not called by me to come.
2:23:40 They were.
2:23:41 You have been making statements otherwise.
2:23:43 So I would like that to be clarified to the community that they
2:23:47 came on their own.
2:23:48 Yeah.
2:23:49 I think that was stated by multiple people due to the fact that
2:23:51 we had a press conference that was there.
2:23:53 So, all right.
2:23:54 Thank you.
2:23:55 We’ll move on to the next part of this conversation was is are
2:23:59 there any other discipline items that people have that they’d
2:24:04 like to bring forward?
2:24:06 And that’s part of this Friday, January 20th.
2:24:09 Are there any other items that they wanted to bring forward?
2:24:12 Ms. Jenkins?
2:24:13 Nope.
2:24:14 Ms. Campbell?
2:24:15 Back to my notes really quick.
2:24:19 This, these are topics for future conversations, but I want to
2:24:22 go ahead and bring them up so we can be thinking about them.
2:24:25 Are they related to discipline?
2:24:26 They are related to discipline.
2:24:27 Okay.
2:24:28 Perfect.
2:24:29 I think that this is a good time as we are.
2:24:31 It’s, I don’t know, this is a during Dr. Schiller’s timeframe or
2:24:35 in the future, but we need to start thinking about some other
2:24:39 options that are going to help.
2:24:41 I think, and the steering committee obviously will need to make
2:24:43 these decisions, but as a board, we need to start preparing for
2:24:46 the fact that we may need to look at some alternatives to the ALC.
2:24:50 We need to, we need to consider that even though the public
2:24:54 sometimes has a perception that we are overstaffed in certain
2:24:58 areas, we are understaffed.
2:25:00 And we, I have heard just not very long ago that we, you know, I’m
2:25:04 just hearing from people, we need more people in the Dean’s
2:25:07 position.
2:25:08 We need more IAs to support the teachers and the staff.
2:25:15 And the idea of campus monitors has come up, which are unarmed
2:25:18 people who help, you know, with just crowd control and bringing
2:25:23 just, you know, unruly students down to the office.
2:25:25 That, that’s, that’s a budget issue, but, and that falls on us
2:25:29 board to decide.
2:25:31 And we have a unique opportunity with the millage.
2:25:34 There was certainly some of it was designated to the different,
2:25:37 um, employee groups, but there is a part that’s just kind of
2:25:40 sitting out there, um, undetermined yet as the needs have come
2:25:44 up.
2:25:44 But it might be something for us to look at as a board as we
2:25:47 start to budget out that, um, that millage, those millage
2:25:50 dollars, um, the part that’s left, that we look at providing
2:25:54 extra support staff to our schools, um, to help with this issue.
2:25:59 Because even if we get some of these things, um, some new
2:26:02 problems solved, this is going to be an ongoing issue.
2:26:05 Mental health issues are not going away any quickly.
2:26:07 I mean, the whole district, the whole world is not going to turn
2:26:09 around on a dime.
2:26:10 Um, but we need to support, um, the schools in the ways that we
2:26:14 can.
2:26:14 And certainly IAs and campus monitors are an inexpensive way to
2:26:16 do that.
2:26:17 Um, and, uh, so anyway, I just want us as a board to start
2:26:21 thinking along those lines, because we do have that opportunity
2:26:24 with the millage maybe to, um, to put some funding behind that.
2:26:28 Additional staffing.
2:26:29 Thank you.
2:26:30 I think the, um, if we can stick on that ALC alternatives,
2:26:34 because I think a bunch of us, that’s one of our top blowing
2:26:36 arguments that we, items that we may want to bring up.
2:26:38 Uh, Dr. Schiller, you had a question.
2:26:39 May I respond, please?
2:26:40 Yes, sir.
2:26:41 The question you raised, Ms. Campbell, is a highly valid one and
2:26:45 something that we need to do.
2:26:47 What I’d like to do is bring forward to you, um, uh, uh, Ms. CFO
2:26:52 Lucinski and my, and cabinet plan, too, how this budget will be
2:26:59 developed.
2:27:00 For me, I think it’s critical for the board, and I do this as a
2:27:07 living, to look at needs, staffing, over, under.
2:27:13 We can’t expect that we’re going to get everything done if we
2:27:16 don’t have the right amount of resources allocated accordingly
2:27:22 to the board’s priorities.
2:27:25 And what I would like to be able to do is refine once, well, CFO
2:27:29 Lucinski and they’re going to be meeting on Friday, devoted to
2:27:33 this whole process of how we can make an alignment based on what
2:27:37 I, we’ve been talking about individually from day one.
2:27:40 When both of you first met and then each of you have been
2:27:44 meeting with me, what are your priorities?
2:27:47 It’s critical.
2:27:48 And I, we can do this now as part of the budget process, as long
2:27:51 as we understand the input that you have of things to look at.
2:27:56 I concur with you, but we need to have the database as to, are
2:28:00 you appropriately staffed?
2:28:02 And I’ve already started those conversations with our folks.
2:28:06 You know, can we do what we need to do, staff the way we are
2:28:10 with the resources?
2:28:12 And the answer keeps coming back as not really, because frankly,
2:28:17 you’ve been running on a shoestring in some of these areas and
2:28:20 it’s been a more push up, push along budget as opposed to taking
2:28:25 a fresh look.
2:28:26 So, if this is the direction the board will go, I’d like to
2:28:30 maybe put this on your February work schedule of how we would
2:28:34 like to propose going forward with a very transparent budget,
2:28:38 although it would not be a zero base, but to make sure that
2:28:42 everyone who would be watching and now that there’s a newly
2:28:46 constituted board that’s six weeks old, so to speak,
2:28:49 where the revenues come from, how the allocations are between
2:28:55 federal earmarked categorical programs, state revenue, local
2:29:00 revenue, the millage, and how we can now identify.
2:29:06 And it may not be addressed in fiscal year 24.
2:29:10 It may be part of the predicate for fiscal year 25 with your
2:29:14 permanent superintendent.
2:29:16 How we can get your district in the next several months
2:29:21 organized in such a way that you have the data to make informed
2:29:25 decisions about addressing needs and staffing and resources.
2:29:30 Does that sound like a generalized plan?
2:29:32 No, I very much appreciate it.
2:29:34 Yeah, so could we, Mr. Chairman, perhaps at your direction, have
2:29:37 something set for February?
2:29:39 Yeah, we’re going to talk about some of those dates and stuff
2:29:42 like that there.
2:29:43 We have, just so everybody understands, we have, it’s 11:20
2:29:45 right now.
2:29:46 We’re going to move to 12.
2:29:47 So if we can keep our conversations down to about three minutes
2:29:50 and just kind of keep moving.
2:29:51 As far as the ALCs, I think some other people wanted to mention
2:29:53 some things.
2:29:54 Ms. Campbell, did you have anything?
2:29:56 I didn’t want to skip you.
2:29:57 I’m trying to go in some sort of direct order.
2:29:58 No, and I think that’s, rather than us, we can’t solve all the
2:30:01 problems today, but it’s not like we’ve got the steering
2:30:04 committees going to be developing it.
2:30:05 We clearly are going to need to look creatively.
2:30:08 Sure.
2:30:09 I’m just going to say it just plainly.
2:30:11 If we’re going to start expelling a whole lot more kids, we’ve
2:30:13 got to have the capacity of the ALCs.
2:30:15 I don’t think that’s the right answer.
2:30:17 I think we need to deal with things from both ends.
2:30:22 Obviously, kids are going to get in trouble, we’re going to
2:30:25 spell them, but what are we doing on the front end?
2:30:27 We need to have those solutions.
2:30:28 We’ve talked previously about do we change what we do with
2:30:31 students who have drug offenses?
2:30:33 Do we get creative and look around at what other – I think we’re
2:30:36 uniquely positioned with Dr. Schiller.
2:30:38 He’s been a lot of places to make some suggestions of some
2:30:41 creative ways that we can do that.
2:30:43 Absolutely.
2:30:44 You said you may want to do something about the ALCs.
2:30:47 Yeah, I mean, since it’s been brought up, and these are topics
2:30:51 that we’re going to have conversations with.
2:30:55 Ms. Campbell, you just brought up.
2:30:57 We are going to have a spike.
2:31:00 I mean, if we do what we say we’re going to do, we’re going to
2:31:03 have a spike in our incidents, in our referrals, in our suspensions,
2:31:08 in our – so forth and so on.
2:31:10 We need to talk about the ALCs, and I’m sure we’re going to have
2:31:13 much to talk about the ALCs, but also talking about creative
2:31:17 ways of maybe a K-5 ALC.
2:31:20 That’s something that needs to be talked about.
2:31:22 It’s a shame that we think, and I think five years ago, 10 years
2:31:26 ago, that would have never even been in a top 10 list.
2:31:30 But we clearly see that our issues have now not just – are just
2:31:35 in our high schools, in our middle schools.
2:31:39 But it is a K-5 issue now.
2:31:41 That is, if you talk to the union, that is where the majority of
2:31:45 our concerns are coming from our teachers, is K-5, undisciplined.
2:31:50 It isn’t the high school.
2:31:52 And ISS, we need to continue to look at that.
2:31:56 I know we have some really good programs out there right now
2:31:59 that we should be looking at.
2:32:00 But again, staffing, but ISS, we’re not talking about expelling
2:32:03 students.
2:32:04 So we need to keep them in our building as much as possible so
2:32:07 we can give them resources and we can talk to them there.
2:32:10 That’s right.
2:32:12 Where we can, you know, bring in even community members to
2:32:15 mentor, you know, and talk to.
2:32:17 So we don’t have repeat offenders.
2:32:18 But we need to keep them in.
2:32:20 So ISS is there.
2:32:21 Campus monitor is great.
2:32:22 Ms. Campbell brought that up.
2:32:23 It’s worked wonderfully.
2:32:25 At my last school, we didn’t have a campus monitor and we have
2:32:30 Coach Johnson there.
2:32:32 And it made an immediate impact.
2:32:35 He was like SRO junior, you know, not armed and had the
2:32:38 relationship with kids.
2:32:40 But it showed that that is needed in our schools.
2:32:45 So what you had talked about, Dr. Schiller, about, you know,
2:32:51 looking at our staffing needs.
2:32:53 We should be in a better place now that the millage has passed.
2:32:57 But we need to look at where we can fund these positions, the IAs,
2:33:01 the campus monitors, the ISS monitors.
2:33:04 And I mean, I know what the public is going to say.
2:33:07 I mean, they’re immediately going to say, you know, look at
2:33:09 district, look at, look at our, you know, are we top heavy?
2:33:12 You know, for every, for every one general, we, we don’t need
2:33:15 that.
2:33:16 That’s two soldiers that we can put on the ground.
2:33:19 I know that’s what the public’s going to say.
2:33:20 So we need to be very transparent on that to see if, if we have
2:33:24 those funds available to properly staff our discipline in our
2:33:30 district.
2:33:30 Yep.
2:33:31 Just for topics in the future.
2:33:32 That’s very, very important.
2:33:34 Ms. Wright.
2:33:36 All right.
2:33:37 I’m, I’m in agreement with everything that you’re saying here.
2:33:39 You had made one, you made a remark and I, I just want
2:33:42 clarification on it.
2:33:43 You gave us a one to nine ratio.
2:33:45 Explain that to me really, if you don’t mind really fast.
2:33:47 Yes.
2:33:48 Direct supervision of our schools.
2:33:50 If one looks at the org chart, there are directors who are
2:33:55 responsible for elementary and secondary that for the most part,
2:34:01 and we can confirm here.
2:34:03 For those directors who have responsibility for their principals,
2:34:08 you have nine principals, nine schools for which directors are
2:34:13 responsible directly.
2:34:15 And then they report to the assistant superintendents.
2:34:18 Okay.
2:34:19 And then you made a remark in regards to surrounding districts.
2:34:21 Generically.
2:34:22 Yes.
2:34:23 I can tell you, I can tell you from all the, I can tell you
2:34:26 Houston is one to 30.
2:34:27 Okay.
2:34:28 We don’t want to go there.
2:34:29 Baltimore County is one to about 27, a little lower in the
2:34:33 secondary.
2:34:34 Pinellas is one to 25.
2:34:36 I can go through what I’m just saying.
2:34:38 I can tell you more.
2:34:39 I can tell you more nationwide, you know, Los Angeles.
2:34:42 I do want to add something to that point though, because unless
2:34:44 with the public gets the impression by the conversation we’re
2:34:47 having right now that we are, we are over.
2:34:49 The lower the ratio.
2:34:50 Every single one of those directors.
2:34:51 The better it is because of support to the schools and
2:34:53 communications.
2:34:54 This is an ideal situation that we’re working with that will
2:34:58 then ensure that between principal and central office, once we
2:35:03 get the kind and through support services, all of these things
2:35:09 are done.
2:35:09 And whomever was able to build that, they were dead right.
2:35:14 Right.
2:35:15 I just wanted to add that in addition to those nine schools that
2:35:18 each of them are responsible for.
2:35:19 They have multiple other.
2:35:20 They have other areas.
2:35:21 For example, just in elementary leading and learning, you know,
2:35:24 one of the directors is over those schools and our choice
2:35:26 programming and charter schools.
2:35:28 One of them is over all of that and all of our early learning.
2:35:33 One of those directors is over their schools and Brevard after
2:35:37 schools.
2:35:38 They all have, none of them are only just doing that.
2:35:41 They are also doing other areas of responsibility.
2:35:43 If I did not say that is in a hurry, but they have manifold
2:35:46 responsibilities.
2:35:47 These are all things that we can show an org chart and we can
2:35:49 definitely deep dive and having conversations up here.
2:35:52 I think.
2:35:53 Yeah.
2:35:54 So did you have anything else?
2:35:55 So I think 100% the ALC alternatives for me, I have extreme
2:35:59 concern about them taking three days off and being in there for
2:36:03 two days.
2:36:04 I would say that for me, I want to move towards a situation
2:36:07 where they’re coming in.
2:36:08 The other piece is, is that we, you can’t tell me that sending a
2:36:12 kid to the community is some of our, some of our offenders may
2:36:16 be doing something while they’re home.
2:36:17 It puts a burden on the parents.
2:36:18 It does a lot of different stuff.
2:36:19 So I, I feel strongly about having that ALC alternative, but now
2:36:23 having them come back.
2:36:25 I think the other thing is like you said, we spoke about this
2:36:29 many times is that there is a difference between a kid that gets
2:36:32 busted for drugs and a kid that is out there violently doing
2:36:35 stuff.
2:36:35 So I think that how that looks, I feel like we all feel like
2:36:38 there’s an opportunity to improve the ALCs.
2:36:41 And I think you’re a hundred percent right also, um, uh, Mr.
2:36:45 Trent on the six through K through five and stuff like that.
2:36:48 But I think you hit on something that is a hundred percent.
2:36:51 We are talking about the kids that go to the ALCs.
2:36:54 When you talk about the amount of children that go there and the
2:36:57 disruptive patterns that they have inside of the classes,
2:37:00 you’re talking about almost less than 1% of our entire
2:37:04 population that are ALC members that cause massive disruptions
2:37:09 inside the school.
2:37:10 So I want the public to understand that this board is all about
2:37:13 creating a safe environment for their people.
2:37:16 But what we would like to do, at least as far as my direction,
2:37:19 is if you have strong ISS programs, the level of expulsions can
2:37:23 come down because you don’t have to expel in some of the
2:37:26 instances you can actually move them to an ISS.
2:37:29 So there’s a huge opportunity through our ISS programs to
2:37:32 provide that.
2:37:33 Because what happens is, is if you can’t effectively have a
2:37:37 child who is being disciplined, he will eventually get worse.
2:37:41 So if you catch them early, put corrective strategies inside of,
2:37:45 we won’t have to worry about future expulsions if we’re able to
2:37:48 give that.
2:37:49 There’s a lot of our principals that are calling because they
2:37:52 just don’t have the bodies for the ISS.
2:37:54 So great point.
2:37:55 More deans, I agree with you 100%, Ms. Campbell.
2:37:58 It’s one of the reasons that Dr. Mullins and I, that I didn’t
2:38:02 vote for the millage was because I said we didn’t need to have
2:38:04 those 150 aides.
2:38:05 I would like to have more deans.
2:38:07 And that was one of the things that I wanted to discuss.
2:38:10 But we didn’t have the opportunity.
2:38:11 Steering committee, great.
2:38:12 Campus monitors, great.
2:38:14 I had a couple of other items that I wanted to bring up.
2:38:20 One of the things that I wanted to do, which is very, very
2:38:24 important, is we need to review our whistleblower policies
2:38:28 and how people are being sent in their whistleblowers and how we
2:38:33 need that to be utilized effectively.
2:38:36 And whether it’s communications or whatever it is, we just need
2:38:40 to make sure that people know that when they send that in,
2:38:41 that they’re not going to be retributed against, right?
2:38:45 The professional development program, of course.
2:38:48 And I think anything else I can bring up with staff.
2:38:51 But you guys nailed it.
2:38:52 Like it seems to me, which I’m really happy about, is that we’re
2:38:56 all on the same page for what we want.
2:38:57 It seems like across the board we are calling for the same
2:38:59 things.
2:39:00 So I just wanted to say congratulations to all of you guys.
2:39:03 Hang on, Ms. Campbell.
2:39:04 I’m sorry.
2:39:05 Congratulations to all you guys for everything.
2:39:07 I really appreciate it.
2:39:08 Ms. Campbell, you had something to say before I gavel it?
2:39:10 Yeah, I don’t want to rain on the celebration parade because I
2:39:13 like to celebrate positives too.
2:39:14 But you said something in there that I don’t want, I want to
2:39:17 make sure, we don’t have clarity on staff.
2:39:19 Or maybe it’s something you said, oh, I want to talk about it
2:39:21 later.
2:39:22 But you talked about wanting to get the students back in, all of
2:39:25 them back in full time at the ALC.
2:39:26 And we got a memo the other day with some data.
2:39:29 One, it was approved by state.
2:39:30 And two, the positives of how it’s worked out.
2:39:33 And especially if we’re going to have a spike like Mr. Trent, I
2:39:36 think we’re going to have to think about how we handle that.
2:39:38 I don’t think we’re all in agreement on that because I would
2:39:41 hate for you or staff to, you know, to go back.
2:39:43 That was a directive of the board.
2:39:44 It was not a directive of the board.
2:39:45 And I don’t honestly think we should make that decision.
2:39:48 And maybe you’re just expressing it as an idea and input as a
2:39:52 decision if we haven’t had until we get back all this from the
2:39:57 steering committee, from RSM, from all of that.
2:40:00 I don’t think we need to move forward with that recommendation
2:40:03 when we have something that’s been working and was approved by
2:40:06 the state.
2:40:07 So I would just be honest with everybody here.
2:40:09 I really dislike the program.
2:40:10 I think that it needs to end.
2:40:11 And I think that we need to move back towards going towards it.
2:40:14 But you are 100% right, Ms. Campbell.
2:40:16 We need to take staff’s direction into all factors.
2:40:19 We can’t just make decisions based on us coming forward with,
2:40:22 hey, this is what we need to do.
2:40:24 But I will be working very hard to make sure that ALC program
2:40:27 does come back and is in full gear.
2:40:29 That’s all.
2:40:30 Can I jump on the ALC thing for a minute?
2:40:33 Because I didn’t speak on it.
2:40:35 This is something I’ve brought up as a concern almost
2:40:37 immediately.
2:40:38 Because some of our agencies and nonprofits that support our ALC
2:40:42 were really disheartened when we changed the amount of time that
2:40:47 our students were there.
2:40:48 But if we’re going to have this conversation, I’m just going to
2:40:51 prepare going like this is a dirty, ugly conversation that I
2:40:53 brought up on December 8th, parts of that data.
2:40:56 It’s a real conversation that we have to be ready to take the
2:41:00 reality and not say that the data isn’t on us.
2:41:02 Because we’re number one in the state for ALC placements, which
2:41:04 is why we had to reduce our number to two days a week.
2:41:07 Because we have too many kids getting thrown into ALC.
2:41:10 That’s why we don’t have enough staff.
2:41:12 And so this is a real conversation that we need to have.
2:41:17 And you know, I know we’re not going there yet.
2:41:20 But you know, just even remotely insinuating the possibility of
2:41:25 a K through five is crazy to me.
2:41:27 We need to talk about that in detail too.
2:41:29 So this needs to be like, we need to dedicate a significant
2:41:33 amount of time to this conversation.
2:41:34 Because it is a problem.
2:41:35 And we need to talk about it.
2:41:36 So thank you for that, Ms. Jenkins.
2:41:38 I did want to say the one thing that I did miss because I was
2:41:41 moving through here is that I would like the dress code policy
2:41:45 to come back.
2:41:46 Many of you may not know.
2:41:47 But on the dress code policy, it talks about us not being able
2:41:50 to wear Crocs and leggings and stuff like that that 90% of our
2:41:53 kids already do.
2:41:54 I think it’s been an effective problem for our principals to be
2:41:58 able to enforce the dress code because of that.
2:42:02 So if everybody’s okay with them working on that because it’s
2:42:06 their recommendation and bringing that back to us too, that
2:42:09 would be good.
2:42:11 So if everybody’s okay, we might be able to get a longer break.
2:42:14 And I really appreciate everybody going through that.
2:42:16 You’re good?
2:42:17 Everybody okay?
2:42:18 I mean, I’d like we can keep going.
2:42:24 Listen, I’ll have my power bar.
2:42:25 Can we agree to try to knock out policy review schedule before?
2:42:28 If you guys want to do that, let’s go.
2:42:30 We can keep going.
2:42:31 Let’s go.
2:42:32 I love it.
2:42:33 Let’s go.
2:42:34 All right.
2:42:35 So many of you guys have heard up here.
2:42:36 And I’ll come to you in a second here, Dr. Schiller.
2:42:39 But many of you guys have heard up here that we have a lot to do.
2:42:42 And one of the things that Dr. Schiller was mentioning is how do
2:42:45 we appropriately get it done by May?
2:42:47 How do we appropriately put all this stuff together?
2:42:50 So what I had asked was with that direction, you guys to grab
2:42:54 your calendars because we might need to add some extra days.
2:42:56 On top of that, we have some of the items that we mentioned
2:42:59 before that we would like to talk about.
2:43:01 But those actually were policies.
2:43:03 So it’s all pretty much the same stuff that we brought forward
2:43:06 on the off site.
2:43:07 So with that, I’m going to hand it over to Dr. Schiller to give
2:43:10 us a little bit of direction.
2:43:11 Thank you.
2:43:12 I appreciate knowing some of the priorities and things that the
2:43:15 board would like to investigate.
2:43:17 That’s what we worked through one-on-one when I first arrived.
2:43:21 And that’s what we worked through for the most part at the
2:43:24 retreat.
2:43:24 Because these are the kinds of things that if you shuffle to me,
2:43:27 staff can then start addressing this as part of what it is that
2:43:31 this board wants to review.
2:43:33 And one of the benefits of your wisdom of going with an interim
2:43:37 superintendent, whomever you wanted sitting here for a period of
2:43:42 time, was to be able to now try to address the kinds of things
2:43:45 so that the new superintendent permanently has a predicate for
2:43:49 which the work would go on.
2:43:50 So as we hear about these different things, we can then start
2:43:54 studying and bring back to you.
2:43:56 Not that we can make the changes right away, but as part of the
2:44:00 budget process, as part of the game plan for your permanent and
2:44:03 for the board, we can have these things lined up.
2:44:05 So as more things come up, please, there’s a process and we’re
2:44:10 now working through it, through me, so you don’t have to go to
2:44:15 staff.
2:44:16 We then will make all of this as part of our go-to plan and over
2:44:22 the next couple months, bringing back what we are finding and if
2:44:27 that leads to a budget implication.
2:44:30 What I’m hearing now is precisely what I think we need to do.
2:44:34 I’m hearing also the need not just for tactical planning year to
2:44:39 year, but more of a strategic look.
2:44:43 Given the explosion of possibility of more and more students and
2:44:47 demands on the school, where should we be going programmatically?
2:44:52 Where should we be going with every other facet as you redefine
2:44:58 the future?
2:44:59 So if we start thinking about three-year, five-year, seven-year,
2:45:03 and look at what’s happening in Brevard County, the multi-different
2:45:07 levels.
2:45:08 One of the focus that I’m going to have as our cabinet meeting
2:45:12 on Monday, which I had just developed late last night to ask to
2:45:15 send out, is how do we start thinking and challenge the staff
2:45:21 and challenge me of a go-forward planning or backward planning
2:45:28 approach?
2:45:28 Because we’re at a time, you know, do we stay the same?
2:45:33 I will not be here for any of that, but we need to start getting
2:45:36 the board to start thinking in this direction.
2:45:39 By what you’re raising now is, well, what about something that
2:45:43 might be done next year?
2:45:45 Other things, as you and I have chatted, need to be on the hopper
2:45:48 for the down-the-road future, as once the board determines how
2:45:53 this board sees the future.
2:45:56 So with that in mind, this one, the policy review schedule, that
2:46:00 came up at a retreat, and that’s why I believe it’s on here.
2:46:04 One, my recommendation, as we’ve talked about, is that the board
2:46:10 needs to very quickly and soon review and revise, and then
2:46:15 approve, adopt, what your board values are.
2:46:19 We have a stated vision, mission, and organizational operating
2:46:24 principles and values that, as far as we know, go back 16 years
2:46:30 at least, maybe 20, that’s been the whole framework is right
2:46:35 there on your site.
2:46:37 But this is a newly constituted board.
2:46:41 That’s what the previous boards had instituted.
2:46:45 So I think what the board would be very healthy to do in order
2:46:49 to lay the framework for the review of your policies is to now
2:46:54 define what are our board’s values.
2:46:59 Do we concur with the vision, the mission, do we also with the
2:47:03 operating principles?
2:47:05 You know it’s right there on the board site.
2:47:07 That is your fundamental piece because idealistically, ideology,
2:47:13 philosophically, that will now set everything in motion.
2:47:19 That’s what I would recommend you start on and do that by March
2:47:23 at the latest.
2:47:24 It should not take long, whether you do it by delegating it to
2:47:28 the vice chair or however you would do it, or an open work
2:47:31 session, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
2:47:34 Number two, in my judgment, I would recommend that the board
2:47:40 focus on your bylaws.
2:47:42 Section 0000, 0121 through 00175, and section 1000
2:47:51 administration, your 1010, your board superintendent
2:47:53 relationship, I have that on there.
2:47:56 Your development administrative regulations, which we alluded to,
2:48:00 these are going to be easy.
2:48:01 And your board staff communications, these are what’s in effect
2:48:06 now.
2:48:07 Does that align with your values and direction of the board?
2:48:10 Now today, for example, you identified the dress code, the
2:48:15 wireless communication devices.
2:48:20 Those are the kinds of things you can cherry pick.
2:48:23 But I would suggest, as facilitated by you, Mr. Chairman, that
2:48:28 the board dig in right soon of each of these things.
2:48:33 Then, B, are there any new proposed policies that the board
2:48:39 wishes that you identify those?
2:48:43 We can do the draft of them.
2:48:45 We do your work.
2:48:46 I, and through our wonderful staff and board council, and if we
2:48:50 needed a, is it NEOLA?
2:48:52 Yeah, NEOLA.
2:48:54 We can then, if there’s such a need that you exist, that you
2:48:58 think, we can then develop them for you.
2:49:01 Meanwhile, the board would work through these, and these were
2:49:06 just suggested deadlines.
2:49:08 Maybe if we can accelerate that, because a lot of these are a
2:49:12 one pager, right?
2:49:13 It does two things.
2:49:14 One, set the direction of this particular board.
2:49:17 Number two, it brings you in compliance with your own policy
2:49:21 book that it should be done every five years.
2:49:24 Okay.
2:49:25 Number three, just make the determination and we can write the
2:49:30 policy or amend it.
2:49:32 Do you want administrative regulations from your superintendent
2:49:36 and here forth for four years going,
2:49:38 or whenever the board changes direction or composition to have
2:49:44 the policies purposefully brought to the board along for
2:49:50 approval?
2:49:50 Of course, you do that.
2:49:51 Do you have the administrative regulations also so that you can
2:49:55 see there’s an alignment,
2:49:56 or do you want to leave it right now to the discretion of the
2:49:59 superintendent whether or not they come to you?
2:50:01 I know what I would recommend.
2:50:03 I could tell you best practice is around the nation.
2:50:06 You can’t have an administrative regulation that’s in discordant
2:50:10 with that of your policy, and sometimes that happens.
2:50:13 And then, and these are development, I quote it in here of what
2:50:21 I sent to you, okay?
2:50:23 They’re all in the back.
2:50:24 The three of the things that you had on the back here are all in
2:50:26 bullets.
2:50:27 If everybody can take a look at them, they’re under.
2:50:29 And then, what I would like to suggest, Mr. Chairman, is that
2:50:33 the board delegates to the interim superintendent,
2:50:35 to facilitate and bring to the board for review when ready, the
2:50:39 review and a revision of any policies in the book,
2:50:42 which may be out of compliance with prevailing statutes.
2:50:45 Yep. Yep.
2:50:46 And we would then bring that as soon as possible, but no later
2:50:50 in April.
2:50:51 I mean, I don’t think there are many out of compliance with the
2:50:53 way it is,
2:50:54 but I just think that that would just be a quality control check
2:50:58 for all of us and for you.
2:50:59 And also, let us take care of sections 2,000 through 9,000,
2:51:05 which would cover most of the operating,
2:51:09 unless there are things that you want to have specifically your
2:51:15 domain, like you want to get into the dress code.
2:51:18 But now we’re talking facilities.
2:51:20 Now we’re talking instruction.
2:51:21 Now we’re talking, you know, the things that are right now
2:51:25 underway by our very talented staff.
2:51:27 Staff, students, finances, property, operations, community
2:51:31 relations.
2:51:32 Bring them to you, of course, for your review of any changes,
2:51:37 recommendations.
2:51:38 It’s your policies.
2:51:39 But if we can separate out the work, use the expertise of these
2:51:44 people who are really good at this stuff.
2:51:47 Okay.
2:51:48 Use the NAIOLA.
2:51:49 Let me orchestrate it this way of the vision of work.
2:51:52 Thank you.
2:51:53 The intent is to bring everything up to speed.
2:51:56 You have a new – you focus on your search for your permanent
2:52:00 superintendent.
2:52:01 And when there’s the handoff, you say, we now have an
2:52:04 operational superintendent feet on the ground.
2:52:07 And I’m back home.
2:52:09 Your policy book will be in administrative regulations on their
2:52:13 way or completed.
2:52:14 Thank you.
2:52:15 Thank you, Dr. Schiller.
2:52:16 I think from a perspective of the board, there’s been a couple
2:52:19 of board members that have wanted to review them and see if
2:52:22 there’s any that they wanted to red flag, right?
2:52:25 I think that we have a need as a direction to move forward with
2:52:29 that.
2:52:30 So what you had mentioned in kind of a schedule.
2:52:33 So you review and revise policies book, which may be out of
2:52:37 compliance with prevailing statutes.
2:52:39 That’s absolutely the job of the staff.
2:52:42 I think, does everybody here agree to allow Dr. Schiller to do
2:52:45 that according to NEOLA and state statutes and stuff like that?
2:52:49 Are there any concerns with Dr. Schiller doing that?
2:52:53 It’s a pretty easy no-brainer.
2:52:55 It should be going well.
2:52:57 The only thing that I come back to on that is that we have some
2:53:00 of these policies that we did as a board look at, but we never
2:53:03 truly, like, updated them.
2:53:05 So it still shows that they’re, like, 2002, even though our
2:53:09 staff may have looked at it.
2:53:10 So if there’s a way that we can put revised or approved of a
2:53:14 specific date, then I think whatever that terminology is so that
2:53:18 it’s updated that way, that would be great.
2:53:20 Yeah.
2:53:21 It’s just, that’s a matter of paperwork, of making sure that
2:53:23 everything shows the revised date and approved at that time.
2:53:27 Yeah.
2:53:28 I mean, we can set that in motion to people who will do this.
2:53:31 I’m sure that we have someone, Paul, who does this type of work.
2:53:35 I think we can figure that out as long as the board doesn’t want
2:53:38 to do it.
2:53:39 Right.
2:53:40 So that you’ll have their reviewed and approved by the board
2:53:44 March 2023.
2:53:46 So I think that’s the first thing.
2:53:48 Is everybody okay with him moving forward with reviewing the
2:53:51 staff policies, right?
2:53:52 We’re good?
2:53:53 Yeah.
2:53:54 All right.
2:53:55 Bring board review in action by period review by April 1st.
2:53:58 One of the things that we looked at for dates was that we as a
2:54:02 board have a couple of dates that are definitely on.
2:54:04 But if you look at the amount of dates that we have as
2:54:07 comparative to our seven-day, seven-day notices and allowing us
2:54:11 to get the policies completed by April,
2:54:13 we may need to add a couple of meetings in between now and then
2:54:17 so that we can strike on some of those dates.
2:54:20 Is this reviewed by April 2nd?
2:54:24 No, but I mean, like he was saying, he didn’t want to have it
2:54:28 all.
2:54:28 We should be able to tell, review all the policies, give Dr. Schiller,
2:54:32 hey, here’s some of the issues that we’re having, right?
2:54:35 He has his administrative ones running.
2:54:37 And then we start bringing them up based on staff getting a
2:54:41 schedule at each one of the board meetings for change.
2:54:44 I think that that’s part of what we’re trying to do here.
2:54:47 I think that we all have a need to try to change some of the
2:54:49 statutes.
2:54:50 And then, so if you guys, if we can speak specific to the dates
2:54:55 that we may need and stuff like that,
2:54:57 is everybody okay with, because here’s what my thing is.
2:55:02 If we decide to move forward with, if we all go to the stat, our
2:55:07 policies, and all of a sudden we come back with a hundred
2:55:10 policies that need to be changed, right?
2:55:11 Well, that changes the amount of days that we would have to come
2:55:15 back.
2:55:15 So predetermining dates as far as how many we may need are there.
2:55:20 The other thing is, is that as we move forward, I was going to
2:55:24 tentatively, if we could, put a couple of dates on here so that
2:55:27 we can tentatively have them.
2:55:28 And then Dr. Schiller, we can always take them off.
2:55:32 But in the event that we need them, we can definitely have them.
2:55:35 Does that sound okay to everybody?
2:55:37 What I was trying to do is to kind of get you to this point.
2:55:41 This is your game plan.
2:55:43 I was just trying to accelerate it so that understanding that
2:55:46 you set what you want to be done.
2:55:49 You give me the directions as your CEO, as your own policies and
2:55:54 the statutes.
2:55:55 So, yes, if this is the game plan that, yes, you’re going to
2:55:58 take these and focus on less those that you want to down,
2:56:02 identify the cherry pick.
2:56:03 Yep.
2:56:04 And you say, yes.
2:56:06 I think–
2:56:07 CEO, go forward with the staff, bring it to us.
2:56:10 We’re going to try to keep an accelerated piece going.
2:56:13 Much of what’s going to be there is going to be remaining in
2:56:16 place.
2:56:17 Yep.
2:56:18 The things that are really going to change, if anything, is
2:56:21 going to be what are your values,
2:56:22 what are your areas of specific intervention, or how you’re
2:56:26 going to redefine your bylaws of your operations.
2:56:30 Yep.
2:56:31 So, yes.
2:56:32 So, again, this is dependent upon you.
2:56:34 I hope this is going to be floating deadlines.
2:56:37 Sure.
2:56:38 We do as much as we can.
2:56:39 Yep.
2:56:40 But that we all understand is a priority for the board.
2:56:42 Yep.
2:56:43 You’re the board.
2:56:44 You’re the policy board.
2:56:45 Thank you, Dr. Schiller.
2:56:46 So, Mr. Gibbs, if we can look at what dates we currently have as
2:56:52 far as agenda dates already noticed, right?
2:56:55 We can kind of mirror them to set up a kind of tentative policy
2:56:59 dates that we may come back to.
2:57:01 Do you have the list of the current dates that we have?
2:57:04 I mean, I have tentatively on here.
2:57:06 Is there a way you can pull them up real quick and read them in
2:57:09 so that we can start working off of it?
2:57:11 Tammy would have the dates of our meetings, right?
2:57:14 All right.
2:57:15 I mean, I can pull them up.
2:57:16 My laptop’s just not up.
2:57:17 Yeah.
2:57:18 Can you?
2:57:19 All right.
2:57:20 We’ll just do this.
2:57:21 So then, yeah.
2:57:22 No, I just, I don’t have my laptop up right now.
2:57:25 So, 2-7.
2:57:26 So, February 7th is the next time that we come back, right?
2:57:29 Is it too early to say we can look through the policies for the
2:57:34 ones that we have concerns with that we may want to change and
2:57:38 give that to Dr. Schiller by the 7th?
2:57:41 Or would you guys like to push that to the 21st?
2:57:44 So a review of the policies.
2:57:45 I’m just looking at, he told us this is a suggested plan.
2:57:50 I’m just looking at the suggested plan was by February 7th that
2:57:54 we would have brought to him any suggestions for new policies by
2:57:59 March that the board would have reviewed our values, mission,
2:58:05 vision, operating principles.
2:58:06 And then, by April 1st, we would have looked through those
2:58:10 crucial bylaws that I saw on the first page that this was sent
2:58:14 to us yesterday.
2:58:16 And it’s in the folder.
2:58:17 So, I agree.
2:58:18 So, I, you know, I, and this, all this is later.
2:58:23 And the staff’s going to work out.
2:58:24 We have ours.
2:58:25 So, I think what we need to decide is are we going, what are we
2:58:28 willing, how much are we willing to get done before then?
2:58:31 So, if we’re going to say February 7th, we’re going to come, we
2:58:33 want to have all the bylaws looked out.
2:58:34 Are we willing in the next two weeks to, the board goes through
2:58:37 the bylaws and, and, or are we just going to wait that, you know,
2:58:40 give ourselves a little bit more time to do that and say, we’re
2:58:42 just, you know, any new policies we want by February 7th?
2:58:45 I’m not really sure exactly what you’re trying to get from us,
2:58:48 Mr. Susan.
2:58:48 Yeah, so that’s a good question.
2:58:49 So, one of the issues that we have is, is do we feel that by
2:58:52 February 7th, we could bring forward any policies that we feel
2:58:56 needed to be changed because of our values or whatever it is?
2:59:00 No, we’re not saying that.
2:59:01 No, I’m asking.
2:59:02 These are the new ones.
2:59:04 Okay.
2:59:05 By February 7th.
2:59:06 And you’re saying new ones, can you give specifications on that?
2:59:08 Yeah.
2:59:09 If there’s something that doesn’t exist that you think needs to
2:59:10 exist, that’s what new means.
2:59:11 I’m asking Mr. Schiller, please.
2:59:12 That’s what new means.
2:59:13 He’s the one that has it.
2:59:14 What I’m thinking about is that, you know, are there policies
2:59:18 that are not currently in your book that you believe need to be
2:59:23 created?
2:59:24 Okay.
2:59:25 Yeah.
2:59:26 What list is that?
2:59:27 Okay.
2:59:28 Just, you know, pick one out of the sky, we’ll determine if it’s
2:59:31 there or covered.
2:59:32 Okay.
2:59:34 And if there is new, and I’m not quite sure what new may be,
2:59:37 that may not be under, that would just then be tweaked.
2:59:41 You’re proposing that by February 7th, any new ones that may not
2:59:45 exist, we want to do.
2:59:47 Okay.
2:59:48 Just which ones are you thinking about, we’ll do the research to
2:59:52 determine whether they’re there, whether they are not there,
2:59:57 what we need to be adding and bring that back to you.
3:00:00 All I need is through you, Mr. Chairman, if you survey the board,
3:00:04 it could be done in however long, an hour by each board member
3:00:08 within an hour.
3:00:09 Yeah, look at this, Schiller, you and staff look at this, do we
3:00:13 have something?
3:00:14 Absolutely.
3:00:15 And if not, we put that in a hopper to put together.
3:00:18 Sure.
3:00:19 That won’t happen by February 7th, but if you, between now and
3:00:23 your next board meeting or work session, have, what are they?
3:00:27 Thank you, Dr. Schiller.
3:00:28 Absolutely.
3:00:29 So the new ones, at what point, Dr. Schiller, would you propose
3:00:32 the ones that we would like to change that are in current
3:00:35 existence?
3:00:36 When would you like to, when would you say that we would bring
3:00:37 those back to you?
3:00:38 Well, that’s number, that’s letter A.
3:00:41 What I would like to suggest that by our March meeting, you then
3:00:46 anchor down, and that should not take that long.
3:00:51 Okay.
3:00:52 What are your values, what about the one page, the one-liner, is
3:00:56 that what you want to stick with?
3:00:59 March 7th, you would like to bring forward any of the changes to
3:01:02 any of the policies that we have currently existing, and go
3:01:05 through them to set direction with staff, is what you’re saying?
3:01:08 Well, I’m saying if you need the time by March board meeting,
3:01:13 you would have completed by revising and then approving the
3:01:17 board values.
3:01:19 If you have board values you want to here.
3:01:22 Sure.
3:01:23 The vision, that’s already a one standard, and the mission is
3:01:27 right behind you.
3:01:29 It’s a page.
3:01:30 It’s one sentence.
3:01:31 Yep.
3:01:32 And what the board has also up there is the organizational
3:01:37 operating principles and values.
3:01:40 If you concur with them, done.
3:01:43 If you need to change them, that’s good.
3:01:45 And then you mentioned here some of the sections that you felt
3:01:47 were your top priorities.
3:01:49 You felt were the top priorities.
3:01:51 For you as a board by April 1.
3:01:53 What I would like to do is give our board the opportunity to
3:01:55 look at what their top priorities might be also, that may be
3:01:59 outside of the scope of what you brought forward already.
3:02:01 Does that make sense to you?
3:02:03 So is it a new policy?
3:02:04 No, no, no.
3:02:05 So you have existing policies on our books.
3:02:08 Your bylaws.
3:02:09 That are not, that may need, our board may need to look at and
3:02:13 change.
3:02:14 That’s what your exercise would be.
3:02:16 Right.
3:02:17 So is that to be brought to you by March 7th?
3:02:19 No, it says by April 1.
3:02:21 So you would like us to bring forward, and how would you like us
3:02:24 to bring those forward?
3:02:25 Just like you’re doing here.
3:02:27 You review, just pick one.
3:02:30 No.
3:02:31 Hmm?
3:02:32 Out of work session.
3:02:33 However you want to do it.
3:02:34 You’re the board.
3:02:35 Paul can advise.
3:02:36 I can tell you one option that boards use is that each person
3:02:41 gets assigned to something as the lead.
3:02:44 And then each board member leads the discussion with the whole
3:02:49 board of what they’re thinking is.
3:02:51 Other boards go forward as a committee of the whole.
3:02:55 And everyone goes through it.
3:02:57 I mean, there are ways to do it.
3:02:59 All I’m interested in, you’re the board, you set the direction.
3:03:02 Sure.
3:03:03 How you proceed.
3:03:04 But I’m trying to say we need to get those as the foundation
3:03:08 before we build the house.
3:03:10 Building the house are the other new policies and a review of
3:03:14 extant policies.
3:03:16 Okay.
3:03:17 If you focus on that, you built the foundation of which
3:03:20 everything else flows.
3:03:21 Okay.
3:03:22 And you would like to have those by April 1st in some sort of
3:03:25 succession order that we bring
3:03:26 them up at meetings and stuff like that.
3:03:28 I think that that would be the timeframe and most of these are a
3:03:32 one liner or they’re in statute.
3:03:35 But they’ve not been confirmed and approved and updated.
3:03:38 So I would say I agree that maybe the idea is not only just one
3:03:42 board member, but maybe what we do is we take
3:03:45 each section and assign it to a specific board meeting and then
3:03:49 we just go through it.
3:03:50 So like you say, you know, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 or whatever.
3:03:53 Right.
3:03:54 So like February 7th is 1,000.
3:03:56 Sure.
3:03:57 For example, the review of policy of ethics is 2008 by NEOLA.
3:04:03 Is there anything in A, B, and C there?
3:04:06 That could be blacked out.
3:04:07 Yeah.
3:04:08 If you need technical legal assistance, we can do that.
3:04:11 So if we can do, if you guys will allow me to, I’d like to since
3:04:16 we got time certain
3:04:17 in three minutes that we wanted to take an hour break and we
3:04:19 kind of said that, if I can go
3:04:21 ahead and look at that kind of a schedule and then come back
3:04:25 after lunch and then be able
3:04:28 to offer that up to you guys of some sort of schedule in that
3:04:30 direction, if that’s okay.
3:04:32 And then we can discuss it a little bit longer.
3:04:34 And that is February 7th, we review these.
3:04:37 February 21st, we review these.
3:04:40 And then if there’s any that need to be, any meetings that need
3:04:42 to be added in between,
3:04:43 we talk about that.
3:04:44 But we’re getting ready to take break for an hour.
3:04:46 And we needed to make sure we honor what we said.
3:04:48 So is that okay with everybody?
3:04:50 Yeah.
3:04:51 Okay.
3:04:53 All right.
3:04:54 Thank you very much.
3:04:55 We’ll be back at one o’clock.
3:05:25 Thank you.
3:28:26 Bye.
3:28:47 Thank you.